# KV Pharma - A royal screwing w/o vaseline **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449 "2011-03-30T01:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/41 "2011-03-30T15:52:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and how convenient of you to ignore the litany of complaints against the FDA from Republicans, especially since an artificial monopoly award to a company that did NOT invest any particular effort in design and research is a false signal to the free market and an action that Republicans decry. One might wonder why they aren’t decrying this one. And I’ll stipulate that I’m not particularly well-read on the subject, but it’s always been my sense that the “litany of complaints against the FDA from Republicans” tends to be more directed toward FDA activities that have the effect of restraining, rather than facilitating, pharmaceutical companies’ opportunities to squeeze humongous profits out of the end users of their products.\* I’ll gladly and gratefully read any cites that can dispel this sense, if it is in fact, incorrect. \*I’m having difficulty with articulating precisely what I mean right at the moment, and I hope you will bear with me. If a more felicitous (and clear) phrasing suggests itself to me at a later time, I’ll revisit this post and amend it. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/42 "2011-03-30T15:52:36Z")
Seriously, must this turn into Repubs vs Dems mudslinging? I fail to see how this is a political issue at all. What can the average Jane do about this? Probably nothing. But I don’t see insurance companies putting up with this for very long. And they’re going to have some influence. I hope, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/43 "2011-03-30T15:54:05Z")
Why does the blame for this belong to either party and not KV? They were the ones who saw the opportunity to be greedy assholes and seized it. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/44 "2011-03-30T15:55:02Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Come on Bricker, you are right to say that its not directly the Republican’s fault, but to say that Obama himself or any of his political appointees is ludicrous. The drug was approved by a board of civil servants whose political affiliation are unrelated to their position. It is also silly to use Republican opposition to the FDA as a claim that they are on the right side. The Republicans hate the FDA becuase it is a regulatory agency and Republicans opposition to regulation in general, not because the FDA grants patents. In general since long term patents and intellectual property rights make money for big business, the Republicans seem to be in favor of them. > > Until one side or the other comes out in favor of KV, its not really a Republican or Democratic issue. Its more an issue of a greedy company, and a gullible review board who didn’t think that the company would be so greedy. This I can agree with. Oh and FYI, the other real issue is that progesterone injections hurt like hell. I used them during the beginning of my pregnancy for several weeks to help prevent miscarriage. OUCH! Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. The real issue for the FDA should be to find a better delivery mechanism for the medication in question. The needle used is very long. If you don’t find the right spot, the progesterone can pool out, bleed and cause you to have to do it again. A pill form would be a most welcome innovation. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/45 "2011-03-30T15:57:26Z")
Upon reflection, I do fail to understand why the FDA jumped into to issue exclusive rights to KV when the compounding pharmacies were already producing it safely and economically. What was the POINT? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/46 "2011-03-30T16:00:21Z")
Missed the edit window. Please amend this sentence > [@](#): > > And I’ll stipulate that I’m not particularly well-read on the subject, but it’s always been my sense that the “litany of complaints against the FDA from Republicans” tends to be more directed toward FDA activities that have the effect of restraining, rather than facilitating, pharmaceutical companies’ opportunities to squeeze humongous profits out of the end users of their products. to read as follows: > [@](#): > > And I’ll stipulate that I’m not particularly well-read on the subject, but it’s always been my sense that the “litany of complaints against the FDA from Republicans” tends to be more directed toward FDA activities that have the effect of restraining, rather than facilitating, pharmaceutical companies’ **(and other regulated entities)** opportunities to squeeze humongous profits out of the end users of their products. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/47 "2011-03-30T16:03:15Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > not Makema as in Marian and Pata Pata. It’s time for bed I guess. That’s Makeba, as in Miriam. 🆒 This is just progesterone, right? A substance that is produced naturally by the human body? How can they even patent that? Does the patent actually cover a specific process for synthesizing the compound and not the hormone itself? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/48 "2011-03-30T16:05:36Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > Upon reflection, I do fail to understand why the FDA jumped into to issue exclusive rights to KV when the compounding pharmacies were already producing it safely and economically. What was the POINT? One suspects that in addition to safety and economicalness\*, the people who considered the issue and made the decision were persuaded that STANDARDIZATION was a worthwhile quality to pursue. One also suspects that they did it because a properly formatted request to do so was submitted to them. \*or possibly “in addition to safety, and **instead of** economicalness” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/49 "2011-03-30T16:14:12Z")
How 'bout we debate which party is responsible over in GD and get back to the hate for KV. Is there any recourse here? What would it take to embarrass someone enough to stand up take these fuckers to task? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/50 "2011-03-30T16:16:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, and how convenient of you to ignore the litany of complaints against the FDA from Republicans, especially since an artificial monopoly award to a company that did NOT invest any particular effort in design and research is a false signal to the free market and an action that Republicans decry. Mmm. Then I expect Boehner and all will be along any moment to stand with the two Democrats looking into this particularly abusive use of the already anti-market artificial monopoly policy promoted by the FDA. I’ll set my watch. You tell me when they decide to say something. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/51 "2011-03-30T16:19:07Z")
And on the hate for KV (sorry) – I fully endorse this pitting. What a bunch of fuckwads. This seems like the type of “evil company” story the media might actually go for, just because it’s SO egregious. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/52 "2011-03-30T16:25:46Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Mmm. Then I expect Boehner and all will be along any moment to stand with the two Democrats looking into this particularly abusive use of the already anti-market artificial monopoly policy promoted by the FDA. Why aren’t ALL the congresscritters crying foul? I mean this is an easy, populist move for the lot of them. What constituent wouldn’t applaud putting a stop to this? This as egregious as they come. (Ok, maybe a KV Pharmaceutical employee or stockholder wouldn’t be happy to see this stopped but willing to bet they are a distinct minority on this one.) ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/53 "2011-03-30T16:40:43Z")
You know what’s sad? KV Pharma could have increased the price to ten times its original cost if they wanted. Still outrageous and KV gets to rake in around $150 in profit per transaction for their “trouble.” All that would have happened would be some general mumblings from certain segments of the internet, but no real traction on change. But they didn’t want 10x the profit. They wanted 100x. And I think (hope) it’ll be their downfall. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/54 "2011-03-30T16:51:48Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > You know what’s sad? KV Pharma could have increased the price to ten times its original cost if they wanted. Still outrageous and KV gets to rake in around $150 in profit per transaction for their “trouble.” All that would have happened would be some general mumblings from certain segments of the internet, but no real traction on change. > > But they didn’t want 10x the profit. They wanted 100x. And I think (hope) it’ll be their downfall. Yeah…one has to wonder at such a misstep. I can only guess this highlights how fucked up the American health care system is overall. This only makes sense if the company figures, “Insurance will pay for it, the public won’t give a fuck, hospitals and insurance will just pass along the cost and no one will notice.” Reminds me of the $1,500 toilet seats (or hammers or whatever they were) the military was buying back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/55 "2011-03-30T16:53:53Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Come on Bricker, you are right to say that its not directly the Republican’s fault, but to say that Obama himself or any of his political appointees is ludicrous. > . > . > . > Until one side or the other comes out in favor of KV, its not really a Republican or Democratic issue. Its more an issue of a greedy company, and a gullible review board who didn’t think that the company would be so greedy. I agree completely. But the post I responded to took those same set of facts and blamed the Republicans. If anyone’s to be blamed, it would be the Democrats, since the people that directly made the decision work for Democrats and the people that can overrule the decision are Democrats. I agree it’s not a partisan decision, and I certainly wouldn’t have thought to blame Democrats. But in the face of the even more ludicrous claim that Republicans are to blame, you bet your bippie I’ll point out that if any particular party’s actors are to blame, it’s NOT the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/56 "2011-03-30T16:54:11Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The truth is that you see two Republican principles at work here: an unfettered free market… How is a government granted monopoly an unfettered free market? Jesus that’s a stupid comment. > [@](#): > > Dems granted this monopoly…? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/57 "2011-03-30T16:56:37Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Mmm. Then I expect Boehner and all will be along any moment to stand with the two Democrats looking into this particularly abusive use of the already anti-market artificial monopoly policy promoted by the FDA. > > I’ll set my watch. You tell me when they decide to say something. The House has a zillion things on its agenda. How about we look to the people that have direct, actual, personal responsibilty over the people that did this? Barack H. Obama Kathleen Sibelius Dr. Margaret Hamburg Why don’t you set your watch for THEM to act?? They’re the ones that could, with a stroke of the pen, fix this. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/58 "2011-03-30T16:57:08Z")
Seems like SOP to me, only the _degree_ of the jacked up price might be a bit unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/59 "2011-03-30T16:58:18Z")
Okay, this is a douchey move by the FDA and a douchier move by KV, but the people blaming the Republicans are just nuts, unless this actually happened during Bush’s watch. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449/60 "2011-03-30T17:08:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, this is a douchey move by the FDA and a douchier move by KV, but the people blaming the Republicans are just nuts, unless this actually happened during Bush’s watch. [No, no Bush here.](http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm242234.htm) > [@FDA press release on February 4](#): > > The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today approved Makena (hydroxyprogesterone caproate) injection to reduce the risk of preterm delivery before 37 weeks of pregnancy, in pregnant women with a history of at least one spontaneous preterm birth. > > The drug is not intended for use in women with a multiple pregnancy, such as a twin pregnancy, or other risk factors for preterm birth. > > The FDA approved Makena under the agency’s accelerated approval regulations that allow promising drugs to be approved based on a surrogate endpoint benefit (here, reducing the risk of delivery before 37 weeks of pregnancy) that is reasonably likely to predict a clinical benefit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kv-pharma-a-royal-screwing-w-o-vaseline/576449.md?page=4)