# KY Resident requests "IM GOD" license plate. KY refuses, resident sues **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842 "2016-11-23T21:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/21 "2016-11-24T01:05:16Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Well, maybe he thudent work out tho hard. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > You think _you’re_ thore, what about _me?_ > [@cochrane](#): > > The Thunder God went for a ride > Upon his favorite filly. > “I’M THOR!” he cried. > The horse replied, > “You forgot your thaddle, thilly.” YOU guys…that’s much better/worse than I expected when I contributed that remark. > [@OldOlds](#): > > I just checked plate availability at the website ( [License Plates | Personalized Plates | drive.ky.gov](https://secure.kentucky.gov/kytc/plates/web/LicensePlate/Index/d949ffb0-c06b-42a2-a865-2548f1460cf8#plateAnchor) ) and none of those are available, though it doesn’t say if its because they are taken or disallowed. > > I do find it interesting that KY plates say “In God We Trust” > > Finally, I had a lot of fun trying to find ways to sneak through dirty plates. “AHOLE” isn’t allowed, but “AH0LE” (zero for the O) was OK Anyone live in Kentucky? Does it cost anything to apply for a personalized plate? Might be fun to put some of these to the test. Can’t imagine they haven’t been applied for already? It IS Kentucky… ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/22 "2016-11-24T04:29:54Z")
You can still get a personalized plate: KY JELY ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/23 "2016-11-24T12:55:11Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > You can still get a personalized plate: > > KY JELY Kentucky Jelly is great on toast. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/24 "2016-11-24T14:07:35Z")
As an ACLU supporter, I’m always happy when I read about them spending my donation on a cause like this. ETA: I wonder if Trinidad/Tobego would allow a plate I’M GRUDE. ---
**Author:** ![jacobson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@jacobson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/25 "2016-11-24T14:21:43Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Story [HERE](http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/kentucky-strikes-down-request-for-%E2%80%9Cim-god%E2%80%9D-license-plates/ar-AAkFp9i?li=BBnbfcL) > > Short version, Bennie Hart requests vanity plate in Kentucky, ‘IM GOD’. The Godless heathens of Ohio granted him that plate 12 years before, but he now wants one as a KY resident. Kentucky refused, first saying that is was "obscene or vulgar language ", then saying that it poor taste and could lead to confronation. > Resident has sued and the ACLU has joined in. > I have to side with State on this. I do not feel this is a 1st Amendment issue. > (I am still googling to find the answer to the question “who actually _owns_ the plate”). If the State of Kentucky owns it, it is a no-brainer. No one has the _right_ to express themselves with Government property. if Mr Hart owns it, it is a little stickier, IMO. > > But each State sets up rules on what they will and will not allow on the plates they issue. That Bennie Hart wants this sentiment on his car is no reason for the State to issue it on a license plate.And his message is NOT being censored. Mr Hart is free to have ‘IM GOD’ on a bumper sticker. He is free to paint it large letters on the hood and door panels of his car. > > As to the claim that _the State_ is claiming Mr Hart’s religious views are obscene or vulgar, therefore demeaning him…this seems a little backward. It seems more to the point that KY doesn’t want to\* participate\* in Mr Hart’s demeaning of _other resident’s_ religious views. > > Just to be clear, if the State decides that they are OK with issuing such a plate, as Ohio obviously was, I am OK with that. But this seems like the State’s decision and not an individual’s right. But am I posting this for discussion, because I could be wrong. \According to the Psalmist in 81st in RC version and 82 in KJV version the psalmist says " I said you are gods and sons of the most high", Jesus uses this in John 10 to validate his calling God his father ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/26 "2016-11-24T14:26:37Z")
I bet liberals and conservatives would reverse their beliefs if they swap whichever reason they hold is fact. 1/ He is a bold atheist cocking a snook at religion. 2/ He is a religious nut who is sure of his own Godhood, only creator of Heaven and Earth and the Firmaments in between. American Nuthood has historical evidences of both. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/27 "2016-11-24T14:33:19Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I bet liberals and conservatives would reverse their beliefs if they swap whichever reason they hold is fact. > 1/ He is a bold atheist cocking a snook at religion. > > 2/ He is a religious nut who is sure of his own Godhood, only creator of Heaven and Earth and the Firmaments in between. > > American Nuthood has historical evidences of both. Eh, I am pretty much in agreement with the OP. I don’t believe in god, but I think for the state to allow a plate they know some will find offensive is to participate in what is likely to happen (road rage, vadalism, etc). His right to free speech is not infringed. And the state doesn’t have an obligation to provide the platform for his speech. So I am supportive of vanity plates erring on the safe side. I have a bigger issue with them putting “In God We Trust” on the license plate as that’s forcing residents to carry around a religious message. Not sure how that’s OK ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/28 "2016-11-24T16:01:34Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I have to side with State on this. I do not feel this is a 1st Amendment issue. > (I am still googling to find the answer to the question “who actually _owns_ the plate”). If the State of Kentucky owns it, it is a no-brainer. No one has the _right_ to express themselves with Government property. if Mr Hart owns it, it is a little stickier, IMO. > > But each State sets up rules on what they will and will not allow on the plates they issue. That Bennie Hart wants this sentiment on his car is no reason for the State to issue it on a license plate.And his message is NOT being censored. Mr Hart is free to have ‘IM GOD’ on a bumper sticker. He is free to paint it large letters on the hood and door panels of his car. > > As to the claim that _the State_ is claiming Mr Hart’s religious views are obscene or vulgar, therefore demeaning him…this seems a little backward. It seems more to the point that KY doesn’t want to\* participate\* in Mr Hart’s demeaning of _other resident’s_ religious views. > > Just to be clear, if the State decides that they are OK with issuing such a plate, as Ohio obviously was, I am OK with that. But this seems like the State’s decision and not an individual’s right. But am I posting this for discussion, because I could be wrong. I’m amazed that no one has actually given the legally correct answer. All of the lawyers must be at home litigating the case of Family v. Turkey. I’m an uninformed armature, but I guess it’s up to me to do my best. While you are narrowly correct that no one has an absolute right to express themself with government property, we each have a very strong right under the free speech and religious freedom clauses of the 1st Amendment (and also the equal protection clause of the 14th) to have the SAME OPPORTUNITY to express ourselves (especially religiously) that the government chooses to give to any other citizen. It is absolutely forbidden for the government to favor one type of religious message over another. What this means, is that once a state allows its license plates to become a forum for citizens to express themselves, it must treat all such expressions impartially. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it can have no restrictions or regulations regarding what can be put on a license plate. Limitations on length are obviously ok, for example, and it is almost certainly acceptable to prohibit obscenity (but good luck defining it). But it absolutely cannot discriminate between different religious beliefs (or between different classes of people granted protection under the 14th). This means the easiest solutions for the state are to allow either any message whatsoever (there being no constitutional requirement to protect people from obscene or shocking language, even if they are permitted to), or to simply disallow any personal message whatsoever from license plates. (As you noted, there is no right to express yourself on a license plate absent someone else being allowed to do so.) Arguably, the state could allow personal messages on license plates while prohibiting, say, ALL mentions of religion, since this would not discriminate against any particular belief, but it would open itself to charges of discrimination against religion by allowing competing secular messages but not equivalent non-secular ones. (Why is “ILVMONEY” acceptable but “ILVGOD” not?) This is exactly parallel to the case of monuments on the courthouse lawn. Once you allow a Ten Commnadments monument to go up, you pretty much have no choice but to allow a Satanist monument. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/29 "2016-11-24T16:07:38Z")
BTW, I strongly disagree with your categorization of Mr. Hart’s message as “demeaning other residents’ religious views.” The idea that stating ones own viewpoint directly is demeaning to people of different viewpoints is pernicious. “CHRISTISKING” does not demean nonchristians. “NO GOD” does not demean theists. And “IM GOD” does not demean non-self-worshippers. That idea is not only silly, but erodes the social discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/30 "2016-11-24T16:16:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Evan Drake** : > > 1/ He is a bold atheist cocking a snook at religion. > > 2/ He is a religious nut who is sure of his own Godhood, only creator of Heaven and Earth and the Firmaments in between. Or 3/ He’s a nutcase whose views are so fractured and crazy that it’s impossible to describe them in sane terms. Frankly, I have no idea which of these three it is, but I also don’t think it matters. The state let him choose what his license plate would say, and he chose. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/31 "2016-11-24T16:23:36Z")
Well, if he gets it - I am going to immediately look to get ‘NO I AM’ ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/32 "2016-11-24T16:24:00Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I bet liberals and conservatives would reverse their beliefs if they swap whichever reason they hold is fact… > …American Nuthood has historical evidences of both. > **[Atheists](https://xkcd.com/774/)** > > 'But you're using that same tactic to try to feel superior to me, too!' 'Sorry, that accusation expires after one use per conversation.' ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/33 "2016-11-24T16:46:12Z")
A few years ago somebody in IIRC California had the plate “GOT MILF”. IMO a great multi-_entendre_ play on the then-popular “Got milk?” advertising slogan. Somebody eventually complained about the plate and the State tried to rescind it. Which they first do by asking the plate owner what the words mean. Apparently situations such as the wording being your initials or your company or something is a statutory exception to the State’s statutory general right of at-will license plate censorship. Anyhow, the guy wrote back that “MILF” was the initialism of some club he operated. Which story they bought for a couple months until somebody with more brains at the DMV HQ clued them in to the common slang for hot upper-20s women. At which point they pulled his plate for lying to them on the form about his “club”. I thought we had a thread on topic, but I couldn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/34 "2016-11-24T18:52:26Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I’m an uninformed armature, I think you meant an unformed armature. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/35 "2016-11-24T22:36:48Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I think you meant an unformed armature. Uniformed armature detective. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/36 "2016-11-25T22:48:49Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > If he was God, he could command them to issueth the plateth. So why doesn’t he smiteth them for not issuing the plateth? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/37 "2016-11-26T03:16:16Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > So why doesn’t he smiteth them for not issuing the plateth? They are already sentenced to the DMV, what more hell could be rained upon them? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/38 "2016-11-26T03:32:26Z")
I think provoking confrontations is the real issue. Some Christian (and it will be a Christian, it will not be an Orthodox Jew, or a fundamentalist Muslim, however offended they may feel internally) is either going to forcefully rear-end this guy with his truck, or get out at a stoplight and ask him with a tire iron exactly what he means. Hilarity will NOT ensue, although blood might. So I can see that this might be sort of like shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater, when there is no fire. Ideally, no one would get so upset by this plate, but honestly, if people aren’t going to be upset by it, do you think the guy would still want it? He wants to be provocative, and the state is saying “No, you can’t be.” When I was 25, I would probably have been all up in arms about the guy’s civil rights, but I’m almost 50, and I just want to tell him that there are better things to do with his time. And better ways to get a concussion. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/39 "2016-11-26T03:44:35Z")
If for some reason I had to drive around with “in god we trust” on my license plate, I’d ask for one that said “noidont” or “thehellido”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842/40 "2016-11-26T04:58:10Z")
I likewise don’t accept the right to be a dick as the point of freedom of speech, let alone freedom of religion. It’s the same reason I do not support those trolling displays by Satanists. I think there is a bright enough line to draw here. There is just no way the right to be a dick furthers anything. Yes, you might be perceived as a dick in pursuit of a cause. But then the cause is what is important, and makes that freedom of speech. But when you do things just to provoke, all you do is make the world objectively worse. There’s just no good policy reason for allowing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-resident-requests-im-god-license-plate-ky-refuses-resident-sues/772842.md?page=3)