# KY Tries Ed Run Around Establishment Clause **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005 "2009-08-28T06:35:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/1 "2009-08-28T06:35:53Z")
[Unbelieveable](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hRgm3AYAMJCUuvKyH-lOyDWNfImQD9AAVVJ00): > [@](#): > > The state Office of Homeland Security was created in response to the Sept. 11 attacks, Wingate said in the order, and two amendments added to the statute creating the office were at issue. > > One required that training materials include information that the General Assembly stressed a “dependence on Almighty God as being vital to the security of the Commonwealth.” The other required a plaque to be placed at the entrance to the state’s Emergency Operations Center in Frankfort that said, in part, “the safety and security of the Commonwealth cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon Almighty God.” Loved this gem: > [@](#): > > “They make the argument … that it has to do with a religion,” Riner said, “and promoting a religion. God is not a religion. God is God.” And then later: > [@](#): > > This is no small matter, the understanding that God is real," he said. “There are real benefits to acknowledging Him. There was not a single founder or framer of the Constitution who didn’t believe that.” Of course a judge threw it out, but it will be appealed. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/2 "2009-08-28T06:49:57Z")
God is so powerful, he needs signs everywhere reminding him that he exists. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/3 "2009-08-28T07:33:08Z")
Yeah, the “God isn’t a religion, he’s God” argument is pretty stupid. What they should have done is gone with established Supreme Court precedent and invoked the concept of [ceremonial deism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_deism), which is a tortured pile of convoluted horseshit that boils down to “with respect to religion, words don’t actually mean things unless we say they do”. I mean, I would have thought that God was a religious figure, myself, but whatever chance I’d have at holding my own arguing with the great state of Kentucky, who am I to question SCOTUS? ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/4 "2009-08-28T08:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=article] “This is no small matter, the understanding that God is real,” he said. “There are real benefits to acknowledging Him.” [/QUOTE] For instance, you can totally get an order of free hash browns at the Waffle House in downtown Louisville. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/5 "2009-08-28T08:30:16Z")
KY… what slippery bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/6 "2009-08-28T12:09:35Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > For instance, you can totally get an order of free hash browns at the Waffle House in downtown Louisville. That’s a little far-fetched, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/7 "2009-08-28T12:16:17Z")
> [@Hung\_Mung](#): > > That’s a little far-fetched, don’t you think? Yeh…I’ve totally been to that WH and they don’t give out free hash browns ☹ Possibly because I don’t believe in god though. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/8 "2009-08-28T12:39:30Z")
They’re right, except for one thing: his name isn’t “God”, it’s Allah. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/9 "2009-08-28T12:57:30Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > They’re right, except for one thing: his name isn’t “God”, it’s Allah. 😛 I heard it was Shiva. Shiva tolerates lesser gods, such as J\*\*h and Allah, so it really doesn’t matter, however. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/10 "2009-08-28T13:00:30Z")
Saying that God isn’t a religion, he’s God is like saying that bacon isn’t pork, it’s bacon. It’s stupid, mindless and betrays a certain childlike attitude. I bet this clown still thinks his dad is the strongest man on earth. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/11 "2009-08-28T13:35:34Z")
Please do not prejudge Kentuckians based on this story. Please remember that for every Tom Riner there is a Tom Wingate. For my part, I will be sure to shake Judge Wingate’s hand when I see him on Monday. > [@DanBlather](#): > > And then later:Of course a judge threw it out, but it will be appealed. Why do you say this? Jack Conway, Kentucky’s Attorney General, is relatively sane for a politician. I’d be surprised if he uses the AG’s office’s limited assets to pursue a sure loser like this. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/12 "2009-08-28T13:40:16Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Saying that God isn’t a religion, he’s God is like saying that bacon isn’t pork, it’s bacon. You’ve got that backwards. God is more like pork in general. Bacon (Catholicism) is Pork (God), but Pork(God) isn’t necessarily bacon(Catholic). It might be Chops(Muslim)_, Ribs(Jewish)_, Sausage(Protestant), Lard(Mormon) or Ham(Jehovah’s Witnesses). So when the Constitution forbids establishing an official Pork Product, it’s not that far out to claim that establishing a national Pork Day isn’t endorsing a particular Pork Product, even if, as a Beef Producer, you get a little ticked at being left out. - Yeah, I know, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/13 "2009-08-28T13:57:45Z")
You know, **Sinaijon** , a lesser man might refer to that post as “farting in the wind”. Far be it from me, however; I admire your gumption. Justifying stupidity must be a tough calling. Anyway, let’s take MsRobyn’s metaphor and torture it a bit more. Religion is meat. Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of meat. “God” is pork. Otherwise, it would say “gods”, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/14 "2009-08-28T14:04:35Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Saying that God isn’t a religion, he’s God is like saying that bacon isn’t pork, it’s bacon. It’s stupid, mindless and betrays a certain childlike attitude. I bet this clown still thinks his dad is the strongest man on earth. Hey hey now, my son still thinks I am the strongest, smartest man on earth. That is one myth I choose not to debunk. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/15 "2009-08-28T14:26:09Z")
> [@camus](#): > > for instance, you can totally get an order of free hash browns at the waffle house in downtown louisville. tanstaafohb ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/16 "2009-08-28T15:06:49Z")
With KY and ED in the title, I thought this thread was going to be about something else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/17 "2009-08-28T15:10:17Z")
> [@](#): > > a plaque to be placed at the entrance to the state’s Emergency Operations Center in Frankfort that said, in part, “the safety and security of the Commonwealth cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon Almighty God.” Let’s nuke the joint, and see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/18 "2009-08-28T15:15:00Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > With KY and ED in the title, I thought this thread was going to be about something else entirely. Yeah. Dashed my hopes too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/19 "2009-08-28T15:19:15Z")
If the safety and security of the Commonwealth of Kentucky are wholly reliant on Almighty God, what do they need an Office of Homeland Security for? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005/20 "2009-08-28T15:25:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the safety and security of the Commonwealth of Kentucky are wholly reliant on Almighty God, what do they need an Office of Homeland Security for? They should disband the Kentucky National Guard and all the Kentucky police forces, too. God will provide. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ky-tries-ed-run-around-establishment-clause/508005.md?page=2)