# Kyrgyzstan and now Poland **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 11, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689 "2010-04-11T02:03:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/1 "2010-04-11T02:03:35Z")
Kyrgyzstan and Poland, two former Soviet Bloc countries. Kyrgyzstan’s unrest led to the President fleeing. The new government has announced only the Russian base is welcome. Days later, a plane goes down killing Poland’s President and many of it’s leading officials. There’s obviously going to be a power vacuum for awhile. Coincidence? I’m reluctant to make too much of this. Still, it makes me uneasy. I grew up in the midst of the Cold War. That plane crash pretty much decapitated Poland’s leadership in one stroke. Putin is definitely going to reclaim the presidency before too much longer. That guy worries me. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/2 "2010-04-11T02:42:35Z")
Never assume malice in what can adequately be explained by human incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Bayesian\_Empirimancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@Bayesian\_Empirimancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bayesian_Empirimancer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/3 "2010-04-11T02:47:49Z")
Was it incompetence? Because with my tin-foil hat, I assume it was coincidence, too much of a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/4 "2010-04-11T02:57:56Z")
> [@Bayesian\_Empirimancer](#): > > Was it incompetence? Because with my tin-foil hat, I assume it was coincidence, too much of a coincidence. Until I see anything to the contrary, I’m assuming it was stupidly putting way too many top officials on an apparently crappy plane, then having to land in dense fog. ---
**Author:** ![Hallucinex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@Hallucinex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hallucinex)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/5 "2010-04-11T03:10:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The new government has announced only the Russian base is welcome. Have they though? There were a lot of rumours early on about this being the case, but the last official word I remember seeing from the new govt is that they’re sticking with the current agreement for now. Might be a different story when it comes to renewing the agreement, but I didn’t think there was anything strong enough to say that “the government has announced” anything? ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/6 "2010-04-11T03:14:30Z")
> [@Bayesian\_Empirimancer](#): > > Because with my tin-foil hat, I assume it was coincidence, too much of a coincidence. What coincidence? Has Russia been making hostile overtures towards Poland? Have they followed up today’s tragedy by rolling tanks across the border, or installing their own puppet government? Do the Russians own some super-secret weather generating machine that can simultaneously beam negative thought-waves to the pilot, causing him to ignore the ATC’s instructions? And what does this all have to do with Kyrgyzstan, anyway? Look, I enjoy a good tinfoil hat conspiracy as much as anyone, but so far the only coincidence I see is that the president’s name is disturbingly similar to that of a college friend I used to smoke pot with years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Bayesian\_Empirimancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@Bayesian\_Empirimancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bayesian_Empirimancer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/7 "2010-04-11T03:19:22Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > What coincidence? Has Russia been making hostile overtures towards Poland? Have they followed up today’s tragedy by rolling tanks across the border, or installing their own puppet government? Do the Russians own some super-secret weather generating machine that can simultaneously beam negative thought-waves to the pilot, causing him to ignore the ATC’s instructions? > > And what does this all have to do with Kyrgyzstan, anyway? > > Look, I enjoy a good tinfoil hat conspiracy as much as anyone, but so far the only coincidence I see is that the president’s name is disturbingly similar to that of a college friend I used to smoke pot with years ago. That HAS to be it! ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/8 "2010-04-11T03:39:36Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Until I see anything to the contrary, I’m assuming it was stupidly putting way too many top officials on an apparently crappy plane, then having to land in dense fog. The last I heard was that the pilot may have been under pressure from the VIPs to land at that particular airport instead of diverting so that they wouldn’t miss the memorial service. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/9 "2010-04-11T03:51:11Z")
sorry dudes, I left my tinfoil hat at my last crazy meeting, and as such my mind has been taken over my Russian thought waves, and rationality, since i left it. ---
**Author:** ![Bayesian\_Empirimancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@Bayesian\_Empirimancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bayesian_Empirimancer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/10 "2010-04-11T04:22:03Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > sorry dudes, I left my tinfoil hat at my last crazy meeting, and as such my mind has been taken over my Russian thought waves, and rationality, since i left it. There’s some [data](http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/) that suggests that you are better off without one. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/11 "2010-04-11T04:36:57Z")
But as the story points out, the president of Poland doesn’t have a particularly large role in governing. That’s the prime minister’s function. So the country’s leadership is far from decapitated. ---
**Author:** ![Otanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Otanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otanx)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/12 "2010-04-11T04:56:54Z")
The base closure is just a rumor. The new interm president Rosa Otunbayeva has stated in several interviews (BBC, Aljazerra, etc) that they are going to leave everything alone, and continue their obligations. Once the elections happen in 6 months all bets are off. My guess is if(and this is a big if) Rosa Otunbayeva wins the election the base will stay. She is pro-western even if she is talking very neutral right now. She knows not everyone following her shares her views. Some of the other leaders are not so friendly to us, and using the base closure as their platform in the election will be good for quite a few votes. There is no doubt that Russia wants us out of Kyrgyzstan, but I don’t think they would take such an active measure to achieve that. Between Kyrgyzstan, Poland, Thiland, and Sudan there are going to be alot of new faces around the presidents table at international meetings. -Otanx ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/13 "2010-04-11T06:05:44Z")
Jesus, you’re all missing the smoking gun that is Thailand as well. I heard the Russian hookers working the Thai trade raised kinkiness to a new level and when Putin pulled them out, it caused widespread demonstrations and may cause the Thai government to fall. Thus setting the stage for the the Ruskies getting a SE Asia beach head they’ve coveted for so long. Think about it sheeple - this is much bigger than a Pole and a 'Stan. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/14 "2010-04-11T07:01:37Z")
Interesting. I spent 35 years of my life living under the Cold War. The Titan missile sites (in Arkansas) were only a hundred miles from my home town. We were definitely on the Soviet first strike list. Taking out Americas intercontinental ballistic missiles would have been a top priority. Thank goodness the Titans have been removed and the silos sealed with concrete. I hope to hell someone remembered to update the old Soviet target list. 😉 I don’t have any wild theories or anything. Generally I try to ignore that part of the world. But, they’ve been in the news a lot in the past week. It’s hard not to notice. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/15 "2010-04-11T15:43:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t have any wild theories or anything. Frankly, you do. Although you don’t state it explicitly, you seem to believe that Putin may have had a hand in overthrowing the Kyrgyz government and replacing it with a more friendly regime (not very plausible given the course of events) and also in killing a large portion of the Polish elites. I’m not willing to buy that until it becomes abundantly clear that [del]Russia[/del] Putin somehow benefits from Kaczynski et al.'s deaths. > [@](#): > > Generally I try to ignore that part of the world. But, they’ve been in the news a lot in the past week. It’s hard not to notice. Are you aware that Poland and Kyrgyzstan are thousands of miles apart both geographically and, in a more figurative sense, politically? Referring to these countries as being in ‘that part of the world’ only works in the sense that they are both in the same hemisphere, but other than that it’s like looking for a link between the Health Care bill in the US and some random new policy in Bolivia or Uruguay. Poland is a country where democracy is firmly entrenched and that is now well integrated in the European Union. Kyrgyzstan, on the other hand, although it is doing a much better job than any other country in Central Asia, should be seen as an authoritarian country in spite of the Tulip Revolution in '05 and the recent events. Finally, since you have such a vivid recollection of the cold war days and the threat of nuclear holocaust, I suggest that instead of paying attention to unrelated events in Poland and Kyrgyzstan, you pay attention to the recent signing of the historical START II treaty in Prague ([link](http://www.rferl.org/content/US_Russia_Set_To_Sign_Nuclear_Arms_Deal/2005644.html)). Russia and the US agreed to significantly reduce their nuclear stockpiles as well as bombers and missiles. Now while tensions between Russia and the US remain, this treaty is an indication once more that the cold war really is over. ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kyrgyzstan-and-now-poland/535689/16 "2010-04-12T21:35:16Z")
The relations between Russia and Poland have improved a lot recently - might have something to do with the US de-emphasizing the Missile Defense shield. And according to German media, the Russians do everything not to jeopardize the re-approachment. They have declared a day of national mourning, unbureaucratic visas for next-of-kin, Putin embraced Tusk at the crash site, etc.