# L, I and 1 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 19, 2024, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431 "2024-11-19T03:14:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/21 "2024-11-19T16:11:40Z")
Lt c0uld be d0ne. Lt w0uld just be a very extensLve, LntrLcate and messy speLLLng ref0rm ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/22 "2024-11-19T16:15:24Z")
1O1 '''…   ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/23 "2024-11-19T16:22:16Z")
A Møøse once bit my sister… No realli! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/24 "2024-11-19T16:59:53Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > > > I understand the concern about what I see, on screen, since I mentioned it. > > > > But its more about space saving on the keyboard and how my typing skills work. > > > > Why can’t it be simpler? > > > > If typing, say, a B required me to pat my head at the same time I hunted and pecked a B, I suppose I’d get used to it. > > Just kinda silly to do so. > > Are you seriously suggesting that your keyboard should have one button for one, ell, and eye, which are really all the same thing then somehow the recipient of your typing (human or computer) would have to figure out which you meant? Is _that_ what she was saying? I couldn’t figure it out. And yes, it’s a nutty idea. And who feels the need to save space on a computer keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/25 "2024-11-19T17:17:40Z")
Some of **Beck** ’s late night OPs require … more interpretation … than others. But I believe that’s what she meant. I stated it as a question because I wasn’t certain. The fact so many other people thought she was talking about fonts suggests the OP text was not a paragon of clarity. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/26 "2024-11-19T17:29:36Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > # 1Il > > On my system, the “1” at least is distinct, but “I” [capital i] and “l” [lower-case L] are absolutely indistinguishable. Not so distinguishable if it is right next to a “1” in our domain name. I got into the habit of making the “l” a capital “L” just to make sure that people read it as “L” and “1” and not “1” and “1”. That mistake was common until I made that adjustment. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/27 "2024-11-19T17:55:43Z")
Yes, just screw up [Ctrl]+F, see what good that does. And the “s” you’re looking for? Here: ſ ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/28 "2024-11-19T18:00:22Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I still want lower case f to be a S. Tom Jefferson: “Declaration looks good, but what’s this PURFUIT OF HAPPINEFF?” Ben Franklin: “Oh, those are S’s. It’s all the rage these days…” (from Stan Frebertg’s history of the USA) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/29 "2024-11-19T19:19:57Z")
I meant nothing nefarious. What my keyboard appears like and what you see on your screen are never gonna know if I poke I,l or l. Your screen will show your own font. It would be “too my liking” to type in an easier way “for my comfort” on my keyboard. It would not change your experience at all. I, I and I would all look the same to you. Umm, haven’t been typing 30 years on a computer keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/30 "2024-11-19T19:38:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > Are you seriously suggesting that your keyboard should have one button for one, ell, and eye, which are really all the same thing then somehow the recipient of your typing (human or computer) would have to figure out which you meant? > > Is _that_ what she was saying? I couldn’t figure it out. And yes, it’s a nutty idea. And who feels the need to save space on a computer keyboard? It is not nutty, rather an important observation, that due to various technical and historical reasons a lot of space is saved on everyone’s computer keyboards. **О** — is that an oh, an omicron, or possibly a zero? I’ll bet your keyboard does not have different buttons for all three. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/31 "2024-11-19T20:38:35Z")
I’m not @Dewey_Finn but I’ll take a shot at this. Right now Unicode contains ~155,000 defined characters. Even with the false simplifying assumption that they all come in upper & lower case, that’s still 78,000 buttons with a shift key. So no, _everything_ can’t be on a single keyboard. For typing US English, uppercase Oh, lowercase oh, and zero are useful. Omicron much less so. Or even ö despite the fact it appears occasionally in high-register modern English. And Oh, oh, and zero are usefully distinguished when communicating with either a computer program or with a human. Likewise with the various e.g. Chinese, Hebrew, & Arabic characters. There sure are humans that use them all day every day, and have them on their keyboards. Just not you, me, or the OP. I interpreted her notion as being that she wanted be able to use lowercase ell as representing any of lowercase ell, uppercase eye, and numeral one. And fonts should display them similarly enough that any human reader would recognize that the lowercase ell glyph can represent any of those three characters. And it was up to the human reader to supply the correct interpretation of the ambiguous-by-design glyph. All because she did not want to have to learn to type a one when she meant one, or an uppercase eye when she meant uppercase eye. Instead … her fingers knew lowercase ell and that was that; change the world to match. The historical record is interesting. But is not license to seriously ask for silly things. My bottom line: It’s a fun topic if we’re all joking to each other. I’m just not sure everyone here is joking. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/32 "2024-11-19T20:49:38Z")
I, too, once had one of those cheap typewriters with only 2–9 on it, because l = 1 and 0 = O, but I imagine that was just because it was cheap, not any sort of standard. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/33 "2024-11-19T20:59:22Z")
I’m not all that married to my needs and wants on this subject. I was just sayin’. Once in a persons Iife you oughta get that 1 peevey thing you hate, addressed, corrected and to your Iiking. Just once. (BTW, aII the eIIs in this post are actuaIIy uppercase eyes) P.S. aII that crap you were talking about coding and some fancy computer characters mean actuaIIy nothing to me, you are talking to the dirt trying to explain that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/34 "2024-11-19T21:04:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Despite her having used computer keyboards for ~30 years minimum she now wants to jump back to 50-60 years ago? WTF? I have to say I agree with her. It would cut down on all the junk email about V1agra and C1alis. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/35 "2024-11-19T21:06:11Z")
Speaking of screen characters, someone explain these please:『 ¡ ï į I would be ever so grateful. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/36 "2024-11-19T21:24:01Z")
Where did you see all of that stuff on one page?? 『 is a Japanese [double] quotation mark, ¡ is a Spanish exclamation mark, ï is just an i with diaeresis (or it could have been a Turkish vowel, or a bunch of other things), and į is an i with ogonek (so you were reading, what, Lithuanian?) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/37 "2024-11-19T21:27:24Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > It would be “too my liking” to type in an easier way “for my comfort” on my keyboard. > It would not change your experience at all. I, I and I would all look the same to you. Buy a programmable keyboard, remap I, l and 1 to a single key (you’ll likely need to make one a Shift function and one a Fn function). Now you have a keyboard with all three on one key. Your request of a lifetime is fulfilled. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/38 "2024-11-19T21:29:44Z")
Eh, just turn on spelling correction. No need to re-program your keyboard layout. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/39 "2024-11-19T21:30:39Z")
Well, I’ll be danged. Dear Santa, I want _that_ for Christmas! Thx, beck ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431/40 "2024-11-19T21:39:42Z")
I think we need more keys on the keyboard. Bring back Ð, Þ, Æ, Œ and Ƿ, I say. Œ (Ethel) and Æ (Ash) are not long departed from academic English, so it would be like they only stepped out for a moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-i-and-1/1010431.md?page=3)