# L. Ron Hubbard **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127 "2003-02-06T03:54:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/1 "2003-02-06T03:54:51Z")
I’m currently reading Carl Sagan’s **Demon Haunted World** and in it he said something very briefly about L. Ron Hubbard claiming to have written a book that would make the reader insane. What’s the deal with this? I don’t believe it in the slightest (and neither did Sagan), but I’ve never heard this before. Also, what’s the logic behind it: I mean, if it drives the reader insane, _I can’t even imagine what it would do to the writer!_ ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/2 "2003-02-06T04:09:04Z")
If L. Ron did make that claim. he stole the idea. See _The King in Yellow_ by Robert W. Chambers, first published in 1895. Far better than anything L. Ron ever wrote. See, for example, [http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5582/chambers.html](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5582/chambers.html) (The maddening item was a play, but close enough. Don’t read past Act I!) ---
**Author:** ![FranticMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c68b51/32.png) [@FranticMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FranticMad)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/3 "2003-02-06T04:12:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*…L. Ron Hubbard … _I can’t even imagine what it would do to the writer!_ \*\* That’s because you’re sane. If you “get” L. Ron Hubbard, then the wacko meter goes to 11 on yo ass. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/4 "2003-02-06T04:16:19Z")
Some would contend that Hubbard wrote stuff that resulted in some losing their rationality. Seems to pay better than causing everyone to lose their sanity. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/5 "2003-02-06T04:40:07Z")
And then there’s this issue: anyone that chooses to sit down and read one of ElRon’s works in its entirety may not be firing on all cylinders in the first place. Just a little tappity tap in the direction of a rubber room might do the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/6 "2003-02-06T05:00:43Z")
I read all 10 volumes of his _Mission Earth_ series. Having done so, I would certainly question the sanity of anyone else who had done it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/7 "2003-02-06T12:39:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FranticMad \* > \*\*That’s because you’re sane. If you “get” L. Ron Hubbard, then the wacko meter goes to 11 on yo ass. \*\* You know what, good point!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/8 "2003-02-06T12:41:59Z")
Maybe Sagan was referring to **Dianetics**. I seem to recall that leading to some rather paranoid people. Incidently I heard a quasi-legend about L. Ron having been kept, after death, by his followers for a few years in his “compound”. The FBI was supposedly called in to regulate and collect the decaying corpse. Anyone know the truth behind this? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/9 "2003-02-06T12:59:50Z")
L. Ron Hubbard penned things known as OTs for his cult Scientology. To keep the money flowing in, he said that anyone who read the innermost documents before they’d been `prepared' (and had spend thousands of dollars) by becoming `clear,’ it would cause severe mental and physical anguish. Want to know the Secret of the Universe and the Foundation to All Happiness? Pay up, sucker. Or, you could go to the right websites and read court documents that are transcripts of those OTs. [http://www.xenu.net/](http://www.xenu.net/) – A great website I currently cannot access. If the bastards have finally gotten to them … ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/10 "2003-02-06T13:29:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > \*\*And then there’s this issue: anyone that chooses to sit down and read one of ElRon’s works in its entirety may not be firing on all cylinders in the first place. > > Just a little tappity tap in the direction of a rubber room might do the trick. \*\* Actually, Hubbard was a decent (thought not great or even major, as his followers claim) pulp SF writer in the 30s and 40s and his “Fear” and “Typewriter in the Sky” are well regarded. Of course, once he got tired of writing for a penny a word, things changed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/11 "2003-02-06T13:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > \*\*I read all 10 volumes of his _Mission Earth_ series. Having done so, I would certainly question the sanity of anyone else who had done it as well. \*\* Thank you, I am not alone. I read the whole series before I found out who he was and what he was all about. The shame… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/12 "2003-02-06T14:31:54Z")
Meatros writes: \> I’m currently reading Carl Sagan’s Demon Haunted World and in \> it he said something very briefly about L. Ron Hubbard claiming \> to have written a book that would make the reader insane. There’s no listing in the index of _The Demon-Haunted World_ for L. Ron Hubbard, nor for dianetics, nor for scientology, nor for _Mission Earth_. What are you talking about? If you’re currently reading the book, why didn’t you just give us the page number of the passage instead of forcing us to go through the entire book? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/13 "2003-02-06T14:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*Meatros writes: > > \> I’m currently reading Carl Sagan’s Demon Haunted World and in > \> it he said something very briefly about L. Ron Hubbard claiming > \> to have written a book that would make the reader insane. > > There’s no listing in the index of _The Demon-Haunted World_ for L. Ron Hubbard, nor for dianetics, nor for scientology, nor for _Mission Earth_. What are you talking about? If you’re currently reading the book, why didn’t you just give us the page number of the passage instead of forcing us to go through the entire book? \*\* Sorry about that. I’m at work currently and I don’t have access to the book. It was in the begining, a very brief blurb, around page 50-70. I think it was in the “alien abduction chaper”, near where he mentions “mesmer”. I’ll check when I get home. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/14 "2003-02-06T15:00:13Z")
O.K., I found what you’re talking about. On page 69, Sagan mentions Martin Gardner’s _Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science_, in which (Sagan says) “L. Ron Hubbard writing a manuscript able to drive its readers insane” is mentioned. I looked at Gardner’s book and found the reference on pages 272 and 273, where it talks about a book by Hubbard called _Excalibur_. Hubbard claimed that “four of the first fifteen people who read it went insane.” Basically, it’s just a nonsensical claim by Hubbard that he probably made up on the spot and which nobody has thought worth debunking. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/15 "2003-02-06T15:09:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*O.K., I found what you’re talking about. On page 69, Sagan mentions Martin Gardner’s _Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science_, in which (Sagan says) “L. Ron Hubbard writing a manuscript able to drive its readers insane” is mentioned. I looked at Gardner’s book and found the reference on pages 272 and 273, where it talks about a book by Hubbard called _Excalibur_. Hubbard claimed that “four of the first fifteen people who read it went insane.” Basically, it’s just a nonsensical claim by Hubbard that he probably made up on the spot and which nobody has thought worth debunking. \*\* Cool! Thanks for the info! How’s Gardners book? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/16 "2003-02-06T15:31:12Z")
It’s a good book. It was published in 1952 and revised in 1957, so some of the information isn’t quite up to date. Still, it’s well worth the read. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/17 "2003-02-06T15:32:00Z")
Here we go: [OT III](http://www-2.cs.emu.edu/~dst/OTIII/), the manuscript of the document Hubbard claimed would drive you insane. You can find the same info at [xenu.net](http://xenu.net), but that site is not accessable to me right now, so I found an alternate route to the info. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/18 "2003-02-06T15:34:02Z")
D’oh. Make that [http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/](http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/) Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/19 "2003-02-06T15:46:05Z")
I just clicked on that link to see what’s so interesting about it. Hmm, it is kind of strange. In fact, it’s really beginning to bother me. Oh, no, this is just too weird. I don’t think I can take this any . . . No, no, please, no . . . Oh, help me, no . . . AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!! ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127/20 "2003-02-06T15:51:57Z")
John Travolta, is that you? No? Must be Tom Cruise. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/l-ron-hubbard/153127.md?page=2)