# LA & an NFL Team **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 17, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515 "2014-12-17T20:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515/21 "2014-12-22T18:33:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That has absolutely nothing to do with it. > > First of all, as pointed out, there is no evidence LA wouldn’t support a team. We are, after all, talking about a city of 12, 15 million people. It’s not going to be hard to find 65,000 every Sunday to go see a football game. > > Secondly, pro sports leagues do not rank attendance among their most important factors - especially the NFL, which could probably make a profit without ever selling any tickets at all. What most matters to pro sports leagues in terms of franchise placement is **getting free stadiums.** That’s why there’s a hockey team on the outskirts of Fort Lauderdale… Nitpick: the NHL awarded Wayne Huizenga a new franchise before anyone had promised to build him an arena. The Panthers played at the now defunct Miami Arena for a year or two before Broward County decided to build them an arena. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515/22 "2014-12-22T19:03:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Now, obviously Los Angeles doesn’t NEED a pro football team to prove it’s a big time, world-class city. Los Angeles IS a big time, world class city! They don’t need a football team to give them status or respect. Hence, when a team makes noises about moving to LA, they’re usually told, “Great! Hope you like the Colosseum!” And that’s usually the end of that conversation. This, plus the fact that Los Angelenos are rather apathetic about sports in general. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515/23 "2014-12-22T19:06:21Z")
It’s worth pointing out that the recently built MetLife stadium, shared by the Giants and Jets, was not built with taxpayer money. The teams paid for it. A lot of the comments ring true in this thread, particularly the bit about mid-level cities shelling out money to make themselves seem to be big time cities, while LA has no need to do so. NYC certainly didn’t need to pay for a stadium to make itself seem like a real city. I do take issue with the idea that LA isn’t a football town so why bother with a team. I would bet money that if we could look at TV ratings for just the greater LA area, NFL games would have consistently higher ratings than baskeball games. Also, NYC isn’t a football town either (it’s a baseball town, and basketball would be #2 if the Knicks hadn’t sucked for decades) but both football teams certainly have viable fanbases. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515/24 "2014-12-22T19:11:24Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I do take issue with the idea that LA isn’t a football town so why bother with a team. I would bet money that **if we could look at TV ratings for just the greater LA area** , NFL games would have consistently higher ratings than baskeball games. But you don’t have to drive to the TV. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515/25 "2014-12-22T19:29:57Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > But you don’t have to drive to the TV. Attendance is one thing. Just being fans is something else. In discussions like these, including in this thread, it’s inevitable that someone will say “LA isn’t a football town” as if there are more people who would watch baskeball (because they’re basketball fans, don’tcha know) than would watch football. I’m saying that I don’t believe this claim. I bet more people in the greater LA area watch football than watch basketball. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515/26 "2014-12-22T20:03:48Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Hence, when a team makes noises about moving to LA, they’re usually told, “Great! Hope you like the Colosseum!” And that’s usually the end of that conversation. Not sure that is entirely accurate. A couple of decades ago, some dude named Behring was going to move his shiny little team to the area, but what he ran up against was 27 other team owners who failed to approve of his move. The stadium was not an issue, IIRC someone had made an offer to build him one in Hollywood or something. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515/27 "2014-12-25T12:55:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That has absolutely nothing to do with it. > > First of all, as pointed out, there is no evidence LA wouldn’t support a team. We are, after all, talking about a city of 12, 15 million people. It’s not going to be hard to find 65,000 every Sunday to go see a football game. > > Secondly, pro sports leagues do not rank attendance among their most important factors - especially the NFL, which could probably make a profit without ever selling any tickets at all. What most matters to pro sports leagues in terms of franchise placement is **getting free stadiums.** That’s why there’s a hockey team on the outskirts of Fort Lauderdale, and why Seattle lost its basketball team to Oklahoma City; the city that gets the team is, within reason, the one that offers the most in the way of free stadiums, revenue streams, and tax breaks. > > You can’t really construct an argument that the Rams are doing any better at St. Louis than they did in LA. Rams attendance was usually pretty good; it cratered in the last few years in LA largely because the team was incredibly bad and was pissing people off on purpose, but prior to that attendance was fine. Attendance in St. Louis has not exactly been super, and of course St. Louis already lost a team before - again, it has to be noted the team is dreadful, so that has a lot to do with it, but still there’s no evidence St. Louis fans are any more dedicated than LA fans. The team moved to St. Louis entirely because no government in southern California wouldn’t give them hundreds of millions of free dollars in the form of a shiny new stadium. The Rams didn’t actually care WHERE they moved to - St. Louis wasn’t even their first choice. They explored Baltimore first, but went with St. Louis when the city promised them millions. The NFL was not happy about it, actually, as they knew full well there was nothing wrong with the LA market, but couldn’t stop them. > > It’s a misconception, I think, that pro sports leagues try to put their franchises where the fans are. They don’t, beyond a certain point, or at least that isn’t the only thing. The NHL has as many teams in Florida as it does in Ontario, which if you’re trying to fill stadia with hockey fans is absolutely insane; if you’re chasing hockey fans, Ontario should have five teams, and Florida should have one. There was no reason based on fan availability to move the Seattle SuperSonics to Oklahoma City; there is no compelling reason why Memphis should have a basketball team but Cincinnati or Kansas City do not; the continued presence of the Tampa Bay Rays in St. Petersburg is clearly not aligned with getting people to come to the ballpark, and if you want another NFL example, “Jacksonville Jaguars” is all I need to say. > > All of these things CAN be explained; stadium deals, tax breaks, attempts to grow TV markets, and things that were well intentioned but just did not work. But they aren’t aligned with where the fans are. Oh My God, I know; that third remark, the whole post really, was satire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-an-nfl-team/707515.md?page=1)