# LA City Council: Eat Shit, Be Sick, Suffer, Die, And Roast In Hell **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 17, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064 "2003-09-17T00:51:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/41 "2003-09-18T15:31:04Z")
_Objective moralilty_? There’s a term you don’t hear everyday. Probably because there ain’t no such thing. There can’t be. If something can be said to be _objective_, it’s has actual existence, or reality—it’s part of the _material_ world. Morality ain’t. All morality is subjective, meaning it exists only it he mind—it’s illusory and solely a matter of personal opinion. Sometimes I swear you liberals are as bad as the chronically religious. Always attempting to hijack “morality” for your own purposes. It’s disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/42 "2003-09-18T15:55:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*I got horse in this race, so be gentle with me: > > But aren’t there more objective reasons to feed the hungry (suffering, burdening other resources, the ugliness of corpses on the street and the expense, etc…) than for outlawing prostitution (it’s wrong)? \*\* Sure, there may be objective reasons but morality isn’t one of them. Once you call an opposing position immoral and say that a big reason that one position is better than another is because it’s more moral pretty much ends your ability to scream bloody hell and criticize people for “legistlating morality.” > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by UncleBeer_ > **Sometimes I swear you liberals are as bad as the chronically religious. Always attempting to hijack “morality” for your own purposes. It’s disgusting.** Like conservatives are any better. Half their arguments on any given topic are that it’s immoral. “It’s immoral for the government to tax you. It’s immoral for wealth to be redistributed.” Whatever. Both sides make me cringe with their mad scrambling to convince the public that they have the high road and that the other side is “immoral.” ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/43 "2003-09-18T17:21:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > Some of us get premium pay because of our overdeloped craniums, others because of our physical prowess, still others because of our penetrating charisma. Albert Einstein, who arguable had a pretty well-developed cranium, worked in the patent office. He didn’t sit on his fat ass and say “Gee, I’m ever so smart - you owe me a job.” And probably thousands if not millions of extremely gifted atheletes wash out of professional sports. Guess what? They have to get a regular job like the rest of us schmoes. > [@](#): > > Exactly what is it about relying on _looks_ that is distasteful? Keep in mind you can couple hard work with any of the above, so it’s not a foregone conclusion that relying on your strong points is laziness. Once again, people are attributing moral judgments to me that I did not make. I didn’t say it’s distateful; I said that people shouldn’t _expect_ to do that kind of work as somehow being their _birthright_. I’ll give you 100 bucks right now if you can find where I said strippers are “lazy” anywhere in this thread. Drive safely and watch out for strawmen on the road… ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/44 "2003-09-18T17:35:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > I smells me some envy. Nah - you must have a problem with your sniffer.😉 > [@](#): > > Okay… what kind of job would she be able to cry about having taken away, and why, and how does it differ from stripping, and can you identify what sorts of jobs we do have “God-given” rights to work at? Welcome to reality - you don’t have a God-given right to do _anything_ for a living. I happen to be a quite capable musician, and I would like more than anything to get paid a buttload of money for it, but in the real world, there are more classical musicians than there are premium jobs, so I have to suck it up and work in an office part-time. > [@](#): > > Your position is a little muddy, apart from your obvious annoyance that women can make money for being beautiful and displaying that beauty, which is entirely a personal issue. Gosh, it’s sure entertaining to read all these things that I supposedly said.:rolleyes: You can take the $100 challenge as well - find where I said (up to this point) “I am annoyed that women can make money for being beautiful.” ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/45 "2003-09-18T17:38:19Z")
blowero, I’d genuinely like to know the definition of a ‘regular job’ and why it is apparently something “the rest of us schmoes” have that those other _non-schmoes_ end up having to get after washing out of their _irregular_ jobs. Do they then become schmoes? Are we all really schmoes deep down inside? I take it from the context that one is never to assume that the “kind of work” involved in an _irregular_ job is a birthright. What kind of work is that? Do schmoes have a birthright? How about a star on their bellies? Don’t worry about explaining your Einstein non-sequitur, let’s cover your mania one outburst at a time, shall we? For the record, I have not, and will not, assign you any moral position. I honestly don’t think you have thought this through well enough to have one. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/46 "2003-09-18T17:41:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Like conservatives are any better. Half their arguments on any given topic are that it’s immoral. “It’s immoral for the government to tax you. It’s immoral for wealth to be redistributed.” Whatever. I won’t argue with that. I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/47 "2003-09-18T17:45:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > As for you, **blowero** , she might not have a god-given right to work in a strip joint but she damn well ought to. It doesn’t hurt anyone and pays good money to someone who needs it. And even if they don’t need it, they should have the right to work in whatever occupation they see fit as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. That covers prostitutes, as well. Actually, I agree with you. The problem is that that type of activity tends to cause a decline in property values, which is not good for the community. You may be for legalized prostitution in theory, but would you want prostitutes hanging out on the sidewalk in front of your house? Don’t communities have the right to say “We don’t want that activity going on _here_”? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/48 "2003-09-18T17:55:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > I don’t wish to speak for **Blowero** Not at all - you explained exactly what I was talking about. > [@](#): > > but you have to admit that stripping, like lion taming, underwater demolition, or putting out oil well fires, is a perfectly legitimate job, but it isn’t work that just anyone can do. When one thinks of a regular job, I, at least think of the usual 9 to 5 meaningless bullshit behind a desk that most of us do. > > After college, I worked in national parks, including 3 years living and working at the bottom of the Grand Canyon at Phantom Ranch. It was legal and paid the bills, but I don’t think anyopne could call that a “regular” job. Ditto for stripping. For some reason, I read that at first as “underwear demolition”. That would _really_ be a niche job.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/49 "2003-09-18T18:00:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*_Objective moralilty_? There’s a term you don’t hear everyday. Probably because there ain’t no such thing. There can’t be. > > If something can be said to be _objective_, it’s has actual existence, or reality—it’s part of the _material_ world. Morality ain’t. All morality is subjective, meaning it exists only it he mind—it’s illusory and solely a matter of personal opinion.\*\* I thought ‘objective morality’ normally used ‘objective’ as in ‘the same for everyone; not subjective’ not as in ‘having physical reality’. I’m not yet convinced that ‘objective morality’ in _that_ sense doesn’t exist, (though I’m not convinced that it does either.) Have I made a stupid assumption? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/50 "2003-09-18T18:27:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*You can take the $100 challenge as well - find where I said (up to this point) “I am annoyed that women can make money for being beautiful.” \*\* Also noting that the adjective “beautiful” would appear to describe a minority of said women. And not only in an “objectively moral sense”. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/51 "2003-09-18T19:01:04Z")
> [@](#): > > You may be for legalized prostitution in theory, but would you want prostitutes hanging out on the sidewalk in front of your house? I am for legalized prostitution and would want the prostitutes available for people to visit at licensed, health-inspected brothels. > [@](#): > > Don’t communities have the right to say “We don’t want that activity going on here”? Well, no, governments have the _power_ (the State has powers; the people have rights) to dictate what is or is not lawful activity within the bounds of the COnstitution. No one I think is disputing that. This ordinance is a stupid use of government power which will not accomplish the stated goal of reducing prostitution, and it seems like a reasonable exercise of our individual rights to decry the dumbass city council for passing it. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/52 "2003-09-18T20:48:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*And then there were two. So not wanting to be forced to give money to feed the hungry is immoral? \*\* Yes. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/53 "2003-09-18T21:28:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > I am for legalized prostitution and would want the prostitutes available for people to visit at licensed, health-inspected brothels. And what if they decided to build a brothel next door to your house? It’s one thing to be for prostitution in theory, but the activity has to take place _somewhere_. > [@](#): > > Well, no, governments have the _power_ (the State has powers; the people have rights) to dictate what is or is not lawful activity within the bounds of the COnstitution. No one I think is disputing that. That wasn’t my point at all. I’m saying a community may not _want_ to have a brothel or a strip club. To that extent, they have the power to prohibit such activity, of course, but do they not also have the _right_ to do so? [hint - I’m not using your narrow definition of “right”.] As far as I’m aware, Beverly Hills has no lap dancing; should they be required to? The city in which I live also has no lap dancing; should _they_ be required to? > [@](#): > > This ordinance is a stupid use of government power which will not accomplish the stated goal of reducing prostitution, and it seems like a reasonable exercise of our individual rights to decry the dumbass city council for passing it. Well, I agree that the reasoning is absurd, and I don’t doubt that the L.A. City Council is dumbasses, but I don’t know that it’s _per se_ a “stupid” use of power. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/54 "2003-09-18T21:37:20Z")
Hmmm…now that I think about it, I may have misspoke. I shouldn’t say that their reasoning is necessarily absurd. A lot of what goes on in those strip clubs is actually prostitution by definition. I’ve heard plenty of first-hand accounts of oral sex being exchanged in those clubs, and without the benefit of the afore-mentioned health controls that would occur if prostitution were legalized. It’s something that’s done on the sly in dark corners of the clubs, and so would be very difficult to regulate. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/55 "2003-09-18T22:42:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > **And what if they decided to build a brothel next door to your house?** Will they have the anal sex? I’m all about the anal sex. Seriously, though, I probably wouldn’t have a big problem with a brothel in my neighborhood, _as long as_ it was part of a general societal shift in which the facilities were generally and commonly available, and accepted. If somebody waved a magic wand right now and made prostitution irrevocably legal, the social climate in the U.S. is such that it would mean “instant ghetto.” _That doesn’t have to be the case._ Many countries have a more enlightened view, and with time we could make a similar change. I’m not saying brothels will ever be as common as McDonald’s or Blockbuster, but getting away from our idiotically Puritan roots would be a good thing in general. And under those circumstances, I wouldn’t have a serious issue with a brothel down the block. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/56 "2003-09-19T00:38:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kung fu lola \* > \*\*Yes. \*\* So then, writing legislation forcing people to give their money to help feed the poor and couching it in terms of morality is, in effect, legislating morality, is it not? It’s just morality that you agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/57 "2003-09-19T08:17:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\* > Government legislating morality that I agree with == good. Government legislating morality that I disagree with == bad. > \*\* Crockomatic. And you know it. Legislating PERSONAL morality in matters between consenting adults. Certainly most of us agree with the government legislating against murder, which is certainly immoral. We agree because when someone else chooses to murder, it is, by definition, a direct violation of another’s right to live, most certainly against their will. And the government looking out for the health and well being of it’s citizens is something we pretty much all agree upon to some degree or another, some of us to a greater degree than others. (Social security, education, welfare, Medicare, laws regulating and controlling business, etc. ) Government legislating the morality of two people engaging in harmless acts willingly should be none of the government’s damned business. These are three distinct matters, and you all know it. Your protestations to the contrary are either lies conveniently told to stir polictical shit or declarations of your own limited ability to comprehend anything but the most gross distinctions, I’ll let you identify which. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\* > > Welcome to reality - you don’t have a God-given right to do _anything_ for a living. I happen to be a quite capable musician, and I would like more than anything to get paid a buttload of money for it, but in the real world, there are more classical musicians than there are premium jobs, so I have to suck it up and work in an office part-time. > \*\* Indeed. But that is hardly a direct comparison to what you said about strippers. Would you consider it legitmate for the City Council to declare that you can no longer play for people who want to pay you to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/58 "2003-09-19T11:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > **Government legislating the morality of two people engaging in harmless acts willingly should be none of the government’s damned business.** Why not? > [@](#): > > **These are three distinct matters, and you all know it. Your protestations to the contrary are either lies conveniently told to stir polictical shit or declarations of your own limited ability to comprehend anything but the most gross distinctions, I’ll let you identify which.** So if we disagree with **Stoid** we are either liars or stupid? My dear **Stoid** , perhaps you are just rationalizing your own hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/59 "2003-09-19T12:38:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*Crockomatic. > > And you know it. > \*\* And, as often occurs, the more **Stoid** hears the air hissing out of her argument, the shriller she becomes, and the more she impugns the motives of those who disagree. You have stated your case several times, and it always boils down to “whatever I like is good, and whatever I don’t like is a dreadful violation of my rights”. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\* > These are three distinct matters, and you all know it. Your protestations to the contrary are either lies conveniently told to stir polictical shit or declarations of your own limited ability to comprehend anything but the most gross distinctions, I’ll let you identify which. > \*\* Or perhaps your case is not nearly as self-evident as you apparently believe, and your failure to comprehend how anyone might have a different point of view shows you to be a tiny bit narrow-minded. Congratulations on developing powers of telepathy. Let’s conduct a little test - how many fingers am I holding up? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064/60 "2003-09-19T13:08:03Z")
blowero, do you plan on offering the definitions several people have asked you or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-city-council-eat-shit-be-sick-suffer-die-and-roast-in-hell/202064.md?page=4)