# La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 13, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208 "2004-01-13T02:06:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/1 "2004-01-13T02:06:51Z")
[ul]
[li][La Passion de Jeanne d’Arc](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0019254/combined)[/li][/ul]
There are no words to describe the beauty of this film. Most decidedly one of the greatest, if not the greatest film ever made. Falconetti’s performance is simply awesome. I don’t know what else to say. Let us discuss the film.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/2 "2004-01-14T16:07:44Z")
I couldn’t let this one fall away without a response.
It is a fabulous film. It’s visually arresting and emotionally compelling. There have been numerous adaptations of the story of Joan of Arc (one starring your Ingrid Bergman), but none can hold a candle to this one.
I’m afraid not many people are willing to sit though silent films, but it’s really a must see for film buffs.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/3 "2004-01-14T17:03:54Z")
Phtt! It’s not even in color!
Only kidding. For me, Falconetti makes this movie just by the close-ups of her face. Remarkably, none of the actors wore make-up. There are so many ways you can see Jean – insane, witch, heretic – or possibly the only pure thing in a corrupt world.
I think people who had survived WWI could identify with the background of a seemingly endless war, also.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/4 "2004-01-14T17:05:42Z")
> [@Baldwin](#):
>
> There are so many ways you can see Jean – insane, witch, heretic – or possibly the only pure thing in a corrupt world.
Obviously, I meant to say Jeanne.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/5 "2004-01-14T20:46:41Z")
Ever since the first of many times I’ve seen this film, it’s hovered among the top one or two in my lifetime topten list.
I’ve had to force many friends to watch it, because they don’t think they can sit through a silent film, but every single one of them has gone on to force others.
I think it’s one of the greatest works of art of this century, and will almost certainly always be one of the greatest cinematic works of all time.
Where’d you finally get a hold of it, Ilsa, to watch it? Have you watched it more than once? you see new things every time.
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### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [January 14, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/6 "2004-01-14T21:30:52Z")
> [@lissener](#):
>
> Ever since the first of many times I’ve seen this film, it’s hovered among the top one or two in my lifetime topten list.
>
> I’ve had to force many friends to watch it, because they don’t think they can sit through a silent film, but every single one of them has gone on to force others.
>
> I think it’s one of the greatest works of art of this century, and will almost certainly always be one of the greatest cinematic works of all time.
>
> Where’d you finally get a hold of it, Ilsa, to watch it? Have you watched it more than once? you see new things every time.
:o I finally remembered that one of my professors, also a good friend has a library of over 8,000 titles. It had never occurred to me to ask him. I bought Sunrise on DVD, and loaned that to him; he gave me Joan Of Arc, Wings and It on VHS. I just watched it Monday, I’ll watch it again this weekend.
Good to see you back in action, man.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/7 "2004-01-15T03:10:54Z")
I have seen it three times, and while I admire everything else about the movie, I dislike Falconetti’s performance as Joan, alternating between catatonia, weepiness, and hysteria. So very different from the self-possessed, quick-witted savant created by George Bernard Shaw in his play _Saint Joan_, who at every verbal parry matched and outmatched her judges at trial.
I have difficulty imaging Falconett’s Joan leading a sewing circle, much less an army.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/8 "2004-01-15T03:28:10Z")
> [@lissener](#):
>
> I’ve had to force many friends to watch it, because they don’t think they can sit through a silent film, but every single one of them has gone on to force others.
I’m not normally a big fan of silent films but I caught the beginning of this one and I was captivated. I’m not a film buff or anything but it just looked so good. Unfortunately it was getting late and I had to get to sleep. I’ll be sure to watch it next time I see it on.
Marc
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### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/9 "2004-01-15T03:36:17Z")
> [@Walloon](#):
>
> I have seen it three times, and while I admire everything else about the movie, I dislike Falconetti’s performance as Joan, alternating between catatonia, weepiness, and hysteria. So very different from the self-possessed, quick-witted savant created by George Bernard Shaw in his play _Saint Joan_, who at every verbal parry matched and outmatched her judges at trial.
>
> I have difficulty imaging Falconett’s Joan leading a sewing circle, much less an army.
Yep, the very image of a peasant teenager on trial for her life before many powerful people who want to kill her and spit on her; self-possessed, quick witted and a savant. Yep, all that verbal parrying like _really_ went on at the trial. 😉
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### Author:  [@Zap\_Rowsdower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zap_Rowsdower)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/10 "2004-01-15T04:46:39Z")
Excellent film. The saw it shortly after that most recent Joan of Arc movie came out a few years ago. I must agree that new other version compares to _La Passion de Jeanne d’Arc_.
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### Author:  [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/11 "2004-01-15T06:10:44Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#):
>
> Yep, all that verbal parrying like _really_ went on at the trial. 😉
It did, didn’t it?
It’s been a while since I’ve read a biography of Jeanne, but if I recall, the records of her trial do show that she was amazingly (considering her education, or lack thereof) verbally adept and quick-witted, and that she astonished her judges, who were expecting an easy kill.
One thing that sticks out in my memory is that Jeanne managed to answer an “unanswerable” question. The judges asked if she was in a state of Grace. Had Jeanne said no, it would have “proved” that she was a heretic. If she said yes, then she was blasphemously claiming to know the mind of God. Jeanne replied, “If I am, let God keep me there. If I am not, then let Him bring me to it.”
As to the film, I agree that it is one of haunting beauty. I happened upon it late one night on cable TV, and was entranced. I particularly remember the look of sad resignation on Falconetti’s face in the scene in which Jeanne retracts her confession knowing it means her doom.
I remember the lighting in that scene as being luminous, and shining. It gave the scene an ethereal, almost other-worldly look. She literally shines.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/12 "2004-01-15T06:34:30Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#):
>
> Yep, the very image of a peasant teenager on trial for her life before many powerful people who want to kill her and spit on her; self-possessed, quick witted and a savant. Yep, all that verbal parrying like _really_ went on at the trial. 😉
Perhaps you should read the [transcripts](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/joanofarc-trial.html) of her actual trials. She _was_ quick-witted, self-possessed, even sassy, which exasperated her accusers. Example:
> [@](#):
>
> Whereupon we, the aforementioned bishop, forbade Jeanne to leave the prison assigned to her in the castle of Rouen without our authorization under penalty of conviction of the crime of heresy. She answered that she did not accept this prohibition, adding that if she escaped, none could accuse her of breaking or violating her oath, since she had given her oath to none.
> [@](#):
>
> The said Jeanne was then brought before us there, and we admonished and required her, under penalty of law, to take the oath that she had taken the day before; and to swear to speak the truth, absolutely and simply, on everything which she was asked in the respect of the matter of which she was accused and defamed. To which she replied that she had taken an oath yesterday, and that should suffice. Then we required her to swear; for none, not even a prince, could refuse to take oath when required in matter of faith. She answered again: “I swore yesterday; that should be quite enough. You overburden me.”
😃
> [@](#):
>
> And first he exhorted her to answer truly, as she had sworn, what he should ask her. To which she replied: “You may well ask me such things, that to some I shall answer truly, and to others I shall not.”
> [@](#):
>
> Asked whether, when the voice showed her her king, there was no light, she answered: “Pass on to the next question.” Asked if she saw no angel above the king, she answered: “Spare me that. Continue.”
> [@](#):
>
> Then she said to us, the aforementioned bishop: “You say that you are my judge; take good heed of what you do, because, in truth, I am sent by God, and you put yourself in great peril.”
> [@](#):
>
> Asked what St. Michael said to her the first time, she answered: “You will get no further reply to-day.” She said the voices told her to answer boldly.
> [@](#):
>
> She adds that the said English will suffer greater loss than ever they did in France; and it will be a great victory which God will send the French. Asked how she knew this, she answered: “I know by a revelation made to me, and within seven years it will happen and I am much vexed that it should be so long postponed.” . . . Asked in what year it will happen, she answered: “You will not learn that: nevertheless I heartily wish it might be before St. John’s Day.”
For that last quote, keep in mind that she was being tried by a court of English proxies.
Is this the Joan that Falconetti portrays?
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/13 "2004-01-15T07:16:56Z")
Sorry, I can’t resist a few more of Joan’s feisty _bon mots_:
> [@](#):
>
> Asked if the saints which appeared to her had hair, she answered: “It is well to know that they have.”
>
> Asked if St. Margaret spoke in the English tongue, she answered: “Why should she speak English when she is not on the English side?”
>
> Asked if her counsel had not told her that she would be delivered out of the present prison, she answered: “Ask me in three months’ time; then I will tell you.” She added: “Ask the assessors, on their oath, if that concerns my trial.” Asked afterwards, when the assessors had deliberated, and unanimously concurred that it did, she said: “I have already told you that you cannot know all.”
>
> Asked in what form St. Michael appeared, she answered that she did not see his crown, and she knows nothing of his apparel. Asked if he was naked, she answered: “Do you think God has not wherewithal to clothe him?”
>
> Asked if she had known by revelation whether she would escape, she answered: “That is not in your case. Do you want me to speak against myself?”
>
> Asked if the voices had told her anything about it in a general way, she answered: “Yes, indeed, they told me that shall be delivered, but I do not know the day or the hour, and that I must boldly show a cheerful countenance before you.”
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/14 "2004-01-15T14:55:54Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#):
>
> he gave me Joan Of Arc, Wings and It on VHS.
_It_, by the way, is one of the most charming comedies ever, and will show you why Clara Bow was a **star**.
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### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/15 "2004-01-15T15:02:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> One thing that sticks out in my memory is that Jeanne managed to answer an “unanswerable” question. The judges asked if she was in a state of Grace. Had Jeanne said no, it would have “proved” that she was a heretic. If she said yes, then she was blasphemously claiming to know the mind of God. Jeanne replied, “If I am, let God keep me there. If I am not, then let Him bring me to it.”
That was Falconetti’s answer, too. I know she was quick witted, but Falconetti just seems like a more reasonable representation than Brett Butler. 😛
I am anxious to see _It_, **Eve**.
**lissener** , I seem to remember you saying you were unable to track down _Applause_; it is now available from Kino On Video.
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### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/16 "2004-01-15T15:03:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Asked if the saints which appeared to her had hair, she answered: “It is well to know that they have.”
>
> Asked if St. Margaret spoke in the English tongue, she answered: “Why should she speak English when she is not on the English side?”
>
> Asked if her counsel had not told her that she would be delivered out of the present prison, she answered: “Ask me in three months’ time; then I will tell you.” She added: “Ask the assessors, on their oath, if that concerns my trial.” Asked afterwards, when the assessors had deliberated, and unanimously concurred that it did, she said: “I have already told you that you cannot know all.”
>
> Asked in what form St. Michael appeared, she answered that she did not see his crown, and she knows nothing of his apparel. Asked if he was naked, she answered: “Do you think God has not wherewithal to clothe him?”
>
> Asked if she had known by revelation whether she would escape, she answered: “That is not in your case. Do you want me to speak against myself?”
>
> Asked if the voices had told her anything about it in a general way, she answered: “Yes, indeed, they told me that shall be delivered, but I do not know the day or the hour, and that I must boldly show a cheerful countenance before you.”
Word For Word from _La Passion_.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/17 "2004-01-15T19:42:39Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#):
>
> Word For Word from _La Passion_.
As Ilsa pointed out, Walloon, the transcripts of Joan’s actual trials were used by Dreyer in _Passion._ IIRC, the transcripts were in fact the only “script” he used, so all of Joan’s language is there, intact. Falconetti’s performance as a scared, bewildered girl, who has the courage to fulfill what she feels is her god’s demands of her despite her fears, rings far more true than Shaw’s abstracted, cavalier Katherine Hepburn wisecracker. Her performance–just about the entire movie consists of closeups of her face–communicates with eery authenticity what it must have felt like to be chosen by god for a superhuman task, but still to be human and frightened and naive and cornered by hypocrits.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/18 "2004-01-15T20:03:20Z")
> [@lissener](#):
>
> As Ilsa pointed out, Walloon, the transcripts of Joan’s actual trials were used by Dreyer in _Passion._ IIRC, the transcripts were in fact the only “script” he used, so all of Joan’s language is there, intact.
I’m mainly about Falconetti’s performance, not the script. But if you want to talk about the script — no, “all of Joan’s language” is **not** there in the movie! If you’ll go the hyperlink I gave above to her trial transcripts, you’ll see how the movie doesn’t use one-tenth of it. By the time Joan’s actual testimony is filtered through Dreyer’s selective script and acted by Falconetti, Joan comes off as a weepy, frightened, catatonically depressed creature.
My point, again, is that if you read Joan’s actual testimony (and I’ve read through most of it), you see a brave, self-possessed, sometimes bold and defiant young woman. _This_ is the Joan who could lead an army to battle, not Falconetti’s wimp.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/19 "2004-01-15T20:21:01Z")
Speaking of Katharine Hepburn and Joan of Arc, in 1934 Hepburn did a screen test, filmed in Technicolor, for a projected version of Shaw’s _Saint Joan_ that never came about. But the screen test survives.
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### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/la-passion-de-jeanne-darc/224208/20 "2004-01-15T23:06:07Z")
Well, to each his own…