# Lack of Cheques in Other Countries **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897 "2010-08-11T01:40:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![jacobsta811](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jacobsta811/32/2893_2.png) [@jacobsta811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobsta811)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/121 "2010-08-13T16:32:33Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I don’t know where you get that from? Yes, a check may cost more than the US, but we hardly use checks. Are you saying that you don’t have any account fee at all? Because in previous threads, USians complained loudly about how much they pay their banks in fees! Well, the system in the USA for fees is odd in that the poor and poor with money management subsidize the rest of us. If I overdraft my account the fee is something like $35 for each overdraft, and there are similar fees for depositing bad checks, and some banks charge a fee for using other banks ATMs. That is, If I bank with Bank of America and go to a Chase ATM I might get charged $1 for using that ATM by Bank of America, and then another $2 to use the ATM by the ATM owner (in this case Chase). But If I use my own Bank’s ATMs, never overdraft (haven’t in 15 years I’ve had accounts), and don’t take bad checks, I never pay any fees at all. And some of the number of banks is definitely due to who regulates them - I believe you can Charter a bank both under state regulations OR under federal regulations. Although I don’t believe that implies that banks chartered under state regulation are not in multiple states - most of the larger banks have branches in all or most states. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/122 "2010-08-13T16:39:14Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > > [@Keeve](#): > > > > If Grandma is 3 states away, there are no local banks to get cheques from. She’ll use a check. > > [Cheque](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheque) > > I am trying to be respectful of the international audience since I am aksing them the question. That is very kind to our Brit friends. It’s always nice to show them some consideration, ever since that whole 1776 thing (where they _ost-lay at-thay ar-way_)! And you made a concession to our urban friends, too – with “I am aksing them”. :~} But seriously, if I was working at a cheque-printing company, I’d be polishing up my resume-- I used to go through dozens a month. Now, a few a year. And I resent it when I have to dig them out, address an envelope, and lick a stamp (kinda miss that flavor, though). ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/123 "2010-08-13T17:18:30Z")
> [@digs](#): > > That is very kind to our Brit friends. It’s always nice to show them some consideration, ever since that whole 1776 thing (where they _ost-lay at-thay ar-way_)! What a very Illuminati ng comment. - fnord - Americans do not read the following post - fnord - In another board, we have discussed our concern that Douglas Adams had let the truth slip when he wrote the HHGTTG. As we Europeans know, the British had a serious problem in the 17th and 18th centuries. They had a lot of uncultured folk with funny accents who could not spell English properly. They told them about a New World to go to, and shipped thousands of Golgafrinchans there, cleansing the population. Finally they persuaded them to declare independence - they were pretty dumb and it was hard work. They had to pretend to fight them of course, so they sent over an army of the remaining Golgafrinchans and they slaughtered each other. The rest is history. But remember, don’t tell them. - fnord - Americans do not read the above post - fnord - ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/124 "2010-08-13T17:26:43Z")
> [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](#): > > > [@digs](#): > > > > That is very kind to our Brit friends. It’s always nice to show them some consideration, ever since that whole 1776 thing (where they _ost-lay at-thay ar-way_)! > > What a very Illuminati ng comment. > > - fnord - Americans do not read the following post - fnord - > > In another board, we have discussed our concern that Douglas Adams had let the truth slip when he wrote the HHGTTG. As we Europeans know, the British had a serious problem in the 17th and 18th centuries. They had a lot of uncultured folk with funny accents who could not spell English properly. They told them about a New World to go to, and shipped thousands of Golgafrinchans there, cleansing the population. > > Finally they persuaded them to declare independence - they were pretty dumb and it was hard work. They had to pretend to fight them of course, so they sent over an army of the remaining Golgafrinchans and they slaughtered each other. > > The rest is history. But remember, don’t tell them. > > - fnord - Americans do not read the above post - fnord - Of course, the C Arc got there after all that had finished. Hence Southern California. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/125 "2010-08-13T21:42:23Z")
> [@Charley](#): > > > [@jacobsta811](#): > > > > Even people who say they only “online bill pay” might actually be using checks - that system is setup to transfer electronically if the company is setup with the bank, but if not then the bank itself is issuing and mailing a check when you click “pay” online. > > Why would this be the case? I can’t imagine this happening at all. Even if I pay my mum, the amount is debited from my account and credited to hers within 4 hours. There’s certainly no cheque generated, it just appears as a credit in her account. We are with different banks, incidentally. She certainly has never needed to ‘set up’ with the bank - she just gave me her account number and sort code and away we go. My ex-wife and I both have accounts at the same branch of a UK bank and at the same branch of a US bank. When one of us submits a payment on the UK bank web site, it appears in the other’s (ok, hers) instantly. When I do that at the US bank web site, they print a check/que and mail it to my ex. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/126 "2010-08-13T23:06:06Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > [QUOTE=Capt. Ridley’s Shooting Party] > Can anybody explain why US banks do transfers this way? This looks incredibly backward. Why would they print out a cheque and mail it instead of just transferring money? I can transfer money from my bank account to any British bank account (actually, I think it’s any European bank account if they send me the right numbers) and it will be deposited most times within the hour. I suspect a very large part of it is the 7800+ banks in the US, plus the untold numbers of credit unions, not to mention that the big banks will themselves do business with multiple branches of the Federal Reserve [/QUOTE] It’s also easier for the sender. If I want to send money to my brother-in-law, all I have to know is his name and address. I don’t have to know any of his bank account numbers, or even which bank he uses. He could even use no bank at all, and cash the check at one of those check-cashing places (though he wouldn’t get the full amount in that case, AIUI). He could change account numbers or even banks, and nothing would have to change about the checks I send him. His banking information is none of my business. That’s how things were when we used checks. Why would we want to use a system that requires us to keep track of more, not less, information on anyone we want to pay? I _like_ not having to know any of the details of how my friends, relatives, and housecleaner bank. It’s their business, and not mine. Even better, online banking can now handle the actual check-writing and mailing bits of this transaction. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/127 "2010-08-14T01:18:20Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > I suspect a very large part of it is the 7800+ banks in the US, plus the untold numbers of credit unions, not to mention that the big banks will themselves do business with multiple branches of the Federal Reserve. 7800 banks? No surprise that integration is tricky! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/128 "2010-08-14T01:22:26Z")
300 million / 7800 = well yes! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/129 "2010-08-15T10:44:06Z")
It seems no one has answered these question from **constanze** , so I’ll try. > [@constanze](#): > > I can only understand wanting checks instead of direct transfers if the other person has no bank account at all - is this the case for both your gardener and your plumber\*\*? While I can imagine a poor immigrant not yet having a bank account, I expect a business, even if it’s a small one, to have a bank account! Once you have a bank account, you can receive money by transfer just as easily as cashing a check. As pointed out above you, getting money electronically is not something that comes with a bank account. Gardeners and plumbers often work for themselves or in small groups, and do not have that extra option. > [@](#): > > So how does an immigrant Vietnamese convert a check to cash if he has no own bank account? Does he give the check made from you to him to a supermarkt cashier to pay his grocery bills, and the supermarkt knows that you authorized the money from your account, although it’s a different party than you made the check out to originally? Sometimes. Some businesses are allowed to cash checks. Walmart, for example, now does this if you buy something. But to do so, they have to have a direct electronic line to a bank. But, in general, the person takes it to a bank to cash it. You’re best off taking it to the bank that issued the check, but if you can’t do that, you can take it to another one and pay a cashing fee. I know this stuff for sure, since my parents went without a bank account for a long while after a string of fraud happening against their accounts. (They weren’t related, but they kept having problems, and decided to say “screw it” to the banks. They only use it now because a certain service requires electronic transfers.) > [@](#): > > \*\* Hijack: Do you mean you hire people who drive around in vans to clean your pipes?? Wow. I would never do that, even if I were not a renter! I want a proper business that has certified people know what they are doing. Otherwise, I wouldn’t need experts in the first place! Now I’m confused. What makes you think people who drive around don’t have to be licensed professionals? The U.S. is the land of small businesses. Sure, there are unlicensed plumbers out there, and you can (probably illegally) hire them, but then their price has to be low enough to allay the risk. More likely the people who “drive around in vans” are going to be hired for jobs that don’t need licensing, doing grunt work we don’t want to do. (And often these people are the illegal immigrants you’ve probably heard a lot about.) ETA: The inverse is not true–many illegal immigrants have other types of jobs. And I use that term for clarity, as undocumented workers might be confusing. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/130 "2010-08-15T13:24:28Z")
I have a question about cheques: there was a thread recently that mentioned some people preferring cheques because it would be ‘quicker.’ In the UK, it would be much slower - cheques take several days to clear into your account and you can’t access that money at all in the meantime. The only places you could get it cleared quickly would be dodgy money-lending shops which would take a huge amount of the cheque. If cheques are quick and easy in the US then it makes complete sense that people in the US use them more. FWIW, over here the only people who pay for accounts are (some) people with overdrafts, and businesses (though many banks offer small businesses free banking too. the account is free, the debit card is free, transactions are usually free (some chip&pin ones charge 1%), cheques are free - to issue and use - direct debits are free, standing orders are free, the vast majority of ATMs are free - these days a lot of them are free even abroad, and that’s with a foreign currency. Why should people get to use another bank’s services for free? Because they’re not doing you a favour by allowing you to give them money, they’re using it to make investments with. > [@BigT](#): > > As pointed out above you, getting money electronically is not something that comes with a bank account. As pointed out elsewhere, it is in Europe. I wonder why it isn’t in the US? If a bank can accept a cheque issued by another bank, why not a direct transfer? (Genuine question, not being snarky). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/131 "2010-08-15T13:30:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But, in general, the person takes it to a bank to cash it. You’re best off taking it to the bank that issued the check, but if you can’t do that, you can take it to another one and pay a cashing fee. > > I know this stuff for sure, since my parents went without a bank account for a long while after a string of fraud happening against their accounts. (They weren’t related, but they kept having problems, and decided to say “screw it” to the banks. They only use it now because a certain service requires electronic transfers.) I missed this before - that’s interesting. Over here, you have to deposit the cheque into your own account, so using cheques would oblige you to have a bank account, not give you a way of avoiding it. It sounds like the US and EU systems are so different they’re difficult to compare, really, ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/132 "2010-08-15T13:55:42Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > As pointed out above you, getting money electronically is not something that comes with a bank account. > > As pointed out elsewhere, it is in Europe. I wonder why it isn’t in the US? If a bank can accept a cheque issued by another bank, why not a direct transfer? (Genuine question, not being snarky). Direct transfer is possible in the US for many purposes, for example many people have their wages directly deposited into their account. Businesses certainly transfer money using ACH. And I can transfer between my own accounts held at different banks. However, for some reason that I do not know, this capability has not been made available for person-to-person transfers. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/133 "2010-08-15T14:01:38Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@Cunctator](#): > > > > Instead, he just transferred the money straight from his account into mine > > What fees are associated with this service? In Germany, this depends on the kind of bank account you have. For most accounts, you pay a monthly fee that covers stuff like electronic transfers and getting money from ATMs. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/134 "2010-08-15T19:08:54Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > > [@scifisam2009](#): > > > > As pointed out elsewhere, it is in Europe. I wonder why it isn’t in the US? If a bank can accept a cheque issued by another bank, why not a direct transfer? (Genuine question, not being snarky). > > Direct transfer is possible in the US for many purposes, for example many people have their wages directly deposited into their account. Businesses certainly transfer money using ACH. And I can transfer between my own accounts held at different banks. However, for some reason that I do not know, this capability has not been made available for person-to-person transfers. Exactly, and this is the bottom line explanation for **constanze** et al for why checks are still used in the U.S., whereas they have virtually disappeared elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/135 "2010-08-15T22:46:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* Hijack: Do you mean you hire people who drive around in vans to clean your pipes?? Wow. I would never do that, even if I were not a renter! I want a proper business that has certified people know what they are doing. Otherwise, I wouldn’t need experts in the first place! > > Now I’m confused. What makes you think people who drive around don’t have to be licensed professionals? The U.S. is the land of small businesses. Sure, there are unlicensed plumbers out there, and you can (probably illegally) hire them, but then their price has to be low enough to allay the risk. Granted, I’m not a homeowner, and I live in a city, so I don’t encounter this anyway, but I rarely hear about people driving around looking for work outside scams - there was a TV report some time ago about people driving up to homeowners and offering to install a video camera security system (Scam, the cameras were duds), offering to replace the old shingles (scam, they took a cash advance and disappeared), offering free inspection of the pipes (scam, they showed recorded footage of damaged pipes to get an offer to repair them). Therefore, the general advice for homeowners is to never, ever, hire people driving around coming to your door unasked. Always look in the yellow pages, for big jobs ask the chamber of commerce or roll of handcrafts, and ask for references of previous jobs, because by calling a business this way, you know they are licensed as qualified experts. If the people in the vans were licensed, they would have a fixed business adress somewhere, and wouldn’t need to drive around, they could wait till people call them. And yes, the US is the land of small businesses, but also the land of lax and confused regulation and no proper apprenticeship/ master qualification. > [@](#): > > More likely the people who “drive around in vans” are going to be hired for jobs that don’t need licensing, doing grunt work we don’t want to do. (And often these people are the illegal immigrants you’ve probably heard a lot about.) Well, our illegal immigrants most often work as cleaning people by word of mouth. I certainly wouldn’t hire somebody I don’t know to do work for me, even grunt work. If the lawn needs to be cut when I’m away, I ask my neighbours who does this, and if he’s diligent. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/136 "2010-08-15T22:50:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I know this stuff for sure, since my parents went without a bank account for a long while after a string of fraud happening against their accounts. (They weren’t related, but they kept having problems, and decided to say “screw it” to the banks. They only use it now because a certain service requires electronic transfers.) This sounds weird to me. If I had trouble with my bank, I would change the bank, as dropping the account would be more expensive in fee for me and a lot of additional trouble. But aren’t checks much more prone to fraud because of the clearing time problem? Everytime experts talk about checks and the different scams, they mention that by law a check has to be credited to your account after 5 days, but in reality the bank can need several weeks to find out if the check is truly valid, so it can bounce after 3 weeks, when you’ve already spent the money. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/137 "2010-08-16T09:53:23Z")
Koreans would find the concept of checks bizarre. What, you give me this piece of paper that says you supposedly have money in your account? Almost everything nowadays is done by phone or online. To prevent fraud you install an electronic signature that is password protected. You can set the system up so you need both your laptop and your phone, plus two passwords, PLUS a combination of numbers from a unique list that your bank assigns to your account, in order to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/138 "2010-08-16T15:38:13Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Koreans would find the concept of checks bizarre. What, you give me this piece of paper that says you supposedly have money in your account? > > Almost everything nowadays is done by phone or online. To prevent fraud you install an electronic signature that is password protected. You can set the system up so you need both your laptop and your phone, plus two passwords, PLUS a combination of numbers from a unique list that your bank assigns to your account, in order to do anything. The point is that banking systems are different in different countries around the world. In Korea, if you wanted to send money to your friend, presumably you’d need some information about your friend’s account to enter into your phone or computer. What information would that be? The thing about paper checks is that you DON’T need any information about your friend except his name. So it’s a good way to send money to someone who doesn’t want to give you any bank account information. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/139 "2010-08-16T16:19:28Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The point is that banking systems are different in different countries around the world. > > In Korea, if you wanted to send money to your friend, presumably you’d need some information about your friend’s account to enter into your phone or computer. What information would that be? The thing about paper checks is that you DON’T need any information about your friend except his name. So it’s a good way to send money to someone who doesn’t want to give you any bank account information. This post illustrates one of the amusing misconceptions that cause a lot of people to be mistrustful of electronic transfers. If you send someone a cheque you are providing them with **exactly** the information they need to make a transfer. And the information they need to make a transfer is **not** enough to remove any money from an account. Of course, if you use a cheque it is the case that the **payee** does not have to reveal any account information but the payer certainly does and as they are the ones with the money … ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897/140 "2010-08-16T17:49:58Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > > [@suranyi](#): > > > > The point is that banking systems are different in different countries around the world. > > > > In Korea, if you wanted to send money to your friend, presumably you’d need some information about your friend’s account to enter into your phone or computer. What information would that be? The thing about paper checks is that you DON’T need any information about your friend except his name. So it’s a good way to send money to someone who doesn’t want to give you any bank account information. > > This post illustrates one of the amusing misconceptions that cause a lot of people to be mistrustful of electronic transfers. > > If you send someone a cheque you are providing them with **exactly** the information they need to make a transfer. And the information they need to make a transfer is **not** enough to remove any money from an account. > > Of course, if you use a cheque it is the case that the **payee** does not have to reveal any account information but the payer certainly does and as they are the ones with the money … The information on the check is what you need to move money to or from the payer. I’m talking about what information you need to move money to or from the PAYEE. That is, the recipient of the check. ETA: That’s exactly what your last sentence said, but I emphasize that this is exactly my point. With a check, you don’t need to know anything about the payee’s bank account. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-cheques-in-other-countries/549897.md?page=8)