# Lack of moderation of quotes in McCain GBT thread **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 22, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873 "2017-07-22T11:04:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/41 "2017-07-23T15:18:47Z")
So if I perchance, did something like this; > [@Spock](#): > > Use the Force, Harry! You’d consider that an actionable misquote? Or are we talking only actual living people here? In which case, is this actionable? [Quote=Chester Bennington] I’d bet my life OJ doesn’t get paroled [/quote] Now admittedly, that one is in poor taste, but it is something I’ve seen on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/42 "2017-07-23T18:09:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course, **december** was sanctioned for posting a quote from a President that was “false,” in that it turned out to be from another President. Neither President (on information and belief) were posters at the time. > > But that was totally different. Because of reasons. What, this, of all times, is when your relentless, bloody-minded legalism fails you? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/43 "2017-07-23T18:15:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course, **december** was sanctioned for posting a quote from a President that was “false,” in that it turned out to be from another President. Neither President (on information and belief) were posters at the time. > > But that was totally different. Because of reasons. I have no knowledge of this incident. Link, please. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/44 "2017-07-23T18:33:23Z")
I extend to **Bricker** my question to **Quartz**. If you don’t support Trump, why do you suddenly care about something people have been doing for years when it’s about Trump? In your case, is it just that **Quartz** has brought it to your attention, and you’d never paid attention before? Still, why go to the mat for Trump? Everyone says this has been allowed for years, so why suddenly care? I don’t even know who this **december** is. I’m pretty sure they were banned before I got here. It’s been that long ago. The mods appear to be being consistent, but, even if they weren’t, why couldn’t things change in 9+ years? If you think there is harm by these fake quotes, then it would be great to hear an argument for that. But, otherwise, why does it matter? Why did it come up about Trump? I’d understand if it were someone “on your side,” but Trump is on no one’s side but his own. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/45 "2017-07-23T19:57:32Z")
**december** was at the center of our winter of misleading content. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/46 "2017-07-23T20:24:21Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I have no knowledge of this incident. Link, please. Here is a link. Misleading content indeed, LHoD. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=205995](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=205995) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/47 "2017-07-23T20:31:09Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Here is a link. > > Misleading content indeed, LHoD. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=205995](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=205995) And a follow up. > **[For post-modern posters, truth depends on who said it](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=206207)** > > This thread began with a quote from “the President” about the threat of Iraqi WMDs. Several posters attacked it. They said the quoted comment was: – a lie – ignoring intelligence contrary to his beliefs – a lie to get us into war – misleading ... ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/48 "2017-07-23T21:16:33Z")
Hmm, that was a long time ago. The board rules may have evolved and changed since then. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/49 "2017-07-23T22:10:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course, **december** was sanctioned for posting a quote from a President that was “false,” in that it turned out to be from another President. Neither President (on information and belief) were posters at the time. > > But that was totally different. Because of reasons. Sorry, **Bricker**. I can’t believe that you don’t understand how those cases differ. **december’s** gambit was a deliberate attempt to deceive in GD. I ask you directly. Do you believe the posts cited in the OP to be rules violation? Do you believe misdirection of the kind demonstrated by **december** should be acceptable in GD? And I note that **december** had a history of that kind of behavior that eventually got him banned. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/50 "2017-07-23T23:17:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sorry, **Bricker**. I can’t believe that you don’t understand how those cases differ. **december’s** gambit was a deliberate attempt to deceive in GD. . I disagree. It was an attempt at a trick to trap his opponents. He quoted “The President”, waited for people to call Bush a liar for those words, at which point he would pounce and say "aha, it was actually your beloved Clinton that said it, ha ha. " It wasn’t a particularly clever trick, and it failed, but I don’t see it as being dishonest as such. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/51 "2017-07-23T23:32:42Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > For what it’s worth - and certainly not in support of Quartz’ campaign to stand up for Donald, which is basic and blatant - I had to stop and think before I realized you were offering an actual quote rather than a paraphrase of something or failed effort at solitaire. May I suggest that, at a minimum, including a link to the quote source would be best practice. FWIW, the quote was fairly unambiguous to me. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/52 "2017-07-23T23:44:05Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I disagree. It was an attempt at a trick to trap his opponents. He quoted “The President”, waited for people to call Bush a liar for those words, at which point he would pounce and say "aha, it was actually your beloved Clinton that said it, ha ha. " > > It wasn’t a particularly clever trick, and it failed, but I don’t see it as being dishonest as such. I see it as a trick, and as such, meant to deceive his opponents. It wasn’t even remotely the same as a joke, or even an unattributed quote. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/53 "2017-07-24T00:26:38Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’ll defend anyone who deserves it. I’ve criticised Trump many times when it was right to do so. Weird - Trump just tweeted this: > [@](#): > > I don’t need **Quartz** to defend me! [Link.](https://mobile.twitter.com/rickroll?lang=en) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/54 "2017-07-24T01:42:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sorry, **Bricker**. I can’t believe that you don’t understand how those cases differ. **december’s** gambit was a deliberate attempt to deceive in GD. > > I ask you directly. Do you believe the posts cited in the OP to be rules violation? No, I think they’re well within the rules. > [@](#): > > Do you believe misdirection of the kind demonstrated by **december** should be acceptable in GD? Yes, I do. That tactic was (in my opinion) an excellent way to separate the honest reactions to the quoted material from the kneejerk reactions to the speaker. Words that were thought to have been spoken by Bush were lies; when it turned out Clinton spoke them, there was a much more nuanced view. And since he did, in fact, simply say “President” instead of “Bush,” I found his tactic perfectly acceptable. What should have happened in GD is judgement based on the words, not the supposed source. As Socrates was fond of saying: > [@Socrates](#): > > Bricker is absolutely correct. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/55 "2017-07-24T02:12:15Z")
And 'december’s " President" quote specifically referenced 9/11. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/56 "2017-07-24T02:28:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I don’t believe I’ve started any such threads about other figures. Trump is a special case: he is POTUS, and the SDMB is an American board. I am not going to go through all umpteen thousand of my posts to find my defences of others, so I will just point out that I have both defended and attacked Thatcher in the thread about British Prime Ministers. > > One of the hardest things to do is to defend those with whom you disagree, but it’s necessary in a democracy. The Dope needs to put its generally pro-Democrat political allegiance and realise the harm it is doing to itself. > > You can fight ignorance or you can promote it. It’s your choice. What “harm”? Seriously? Do you have some notion that it’s illegal to criticize the POTUS in the U.S.? What, do you think that Trump is going to send the Secret Service to Ed’s door or something? Bush was criticized pretty hard too. I don’t remember you campaigning for him. Jesus Christ, dude. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/57 "2017-07-24T02:48:49Z")
**december** in that quote was clearly trying to deceive people about who actually said what was said. The entire gambit you are defending depends on this. **december** was being deceptive with his use of the quote boxes. Deceptive use of quote boxes has always been against the rules here. If you accidentally do it, you generally get a note. But, if you intentionally do it, you very well may get a Warning. In this particular case, there was no attempt at any deception, so there is no rules violation. And since you do not actually contend that there was anything wrong with the moderation in this particular case, all you are doing is wasting everyone’s time. You know the previous decision will not be overturned. To put it in legal terms, you are in a case where two people are accused of breaking the law. But you are choosing to argue about about a case years ago that was decided by a completely different judge. [sub]If you agree with my argument, you may wish to quote it (or reargue it) so that **Bricker** will see it.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/58 "2017-07-24T03:24:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > …[sub]If you agree with my argument, you may wish to quote it (or reargue it) so that **Bricker** will see it.[/sub] I’m having flashbacks to high school. “Will you tell your mate that my mate fancies her and wants to meet behind the bike sheds after school for a snog?” ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/59 "2017-07-24T10:17:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What “harm”? Seriously? Do you have some notion that it’s illegal to criticize the POTUS in the U.S.? What, do you think that Trump is going to send the Secret Service to Ed’s door or something? > Bush was criticized pretty hard too. I don’t remember you campaigning for him. Jesus Christ, dude. > > :rolleyes: He’s worried that American democracy could be degraded to a point where the people elect an unqualified, semi-literate, dishonest, infantile, silver-spoon-sucking and ethically-compromised demagogue. Sounds far-fetched to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873/60 "2017-07-24T10:58:03Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sorry, **Bricker**. I can’t believe that you don’t understand how those cases differ. **december’s** gambit was a deliberate attempt to deceive in GD. > > I ask you directly. Do you believe the posts cited in the OP to be rules violation? > > Do you believe misdirection of the kind demonstrated by **december** should be acceptable in GD? > > And I note that **december** had a history of that kind of behavior that eventually got him banned. > [@Bricker](#): > > No, I think they’re well within the rules. > > Yes, I do. > > That tactic was (in my opinion) an excellent way to separate the honest reactions to the quoted material from the kneejerk reactions to the speaker. Words that were thought to have been spoken by Bush were lies; when it turned out Clinton spoke them, there was a much more nuanced view. And since he did, in fact, simply say “President” instead of “Bush,” I found his tactic perfectly acceptable. > > What should have happened in GD is judgement based on the words, not the supposed source. It’s certainly a dishonest and deceitful practice and, in my view, morally reprehensible, but the odd occasion shouldn’t warrant moderator attention and indeed I can recall a few instances from other posters where it passed without official notice. Repeated practice, however, rapidly demonstrates an unwillingness to discuss and debate in good faith and bears a very strong resemblance to trolling. **december** used to misrepresent and mischaracterize the views of others on a very, very regular basis, and frankly IMO the only reason he got away with it for so long was because he couched his lies and calumnies in polite language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lack-of-moderation-of-quotes-in-mccain-gbt-thread/791873.md?page=4)