# Ladies: Are you attracted to men who treat you poorly? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202 "2012-04-08T21:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/61 "2012-04-10T02:22:10Z")
I’m attracted to “bad boys” in fiction. In reality, I want them to stay far the hell away from me. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/62 "2012-04-10T03:05:43Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Learn to love the boring guy who doesn’t know how to dress. He’s probably not really boring, just quietly confident in his ability to do what he likes. At the very least, his self-worth isn’t attached to his dick or biceps. My first and last boyfriends appeared boring and didn’t have any fashion sense. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/63 "2012-04-10T04:56:07Z")
I’m attracted to good-looking men. Some of them are jerks. I’m also strongly attracted to intelligence, kindness, humor, and emotional openness and vulnerability. Looks alone aren’t justification for getting involved with someone. I’ve never slept with, dated, or had feelings for someone who wasn’t very kind, and at this point I doubt I ever will. I’m just too cautious of drama. I will say that I can’t abide an ass-kisser. And I like being poked fun at. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/64 "2012-04-10T23:28:32Z")
Hell no. There is a world of difference between a nice guy and a good man. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/65 "2012-04-11T00:55:17Z")
Before the multi-quote-palooza, in answer to the OP, hell no. I don’t play that game. > [@even\_sven](#): > > I think the attitude of “they must have low self-esteem” or “they are too naive to realize they are being exploited” is a bit patronizing towards adult women who are making active choices. Unless there is real actual abuse going on, a woman making a free choice is not a victim. > > When a man “sticks his dick in the crazy”, we assume the sex must be really hot and warn him to wrap it up, enjoy the ride, and know when to get off. Men have a social script for “I’m in my 20s, I’m not ready to think about marriage, and I’m going to date all kinds of hot girls, crazy or not, and have fun with it without investing too much” > > Women in their 20s do not have this script. There is this assumption for women that every relationship must be headed toward marriage, or else it’s a horrible failure, she’s probably been duped, and it’s all a bit of a shame. > > This doesn’t match our modern reality, though, were women are not marrying in their early 20s, and are often as interested in screwing around, having hot sex, meeting new and interesting partners who are not necessarily marriage material, and generally just having fun. Sure, some women might fool around with a guy who is less than stand up, but if she’s actually into him and falls in love with someone who treats her poorly, she’s fucked in the head. > [@msmith537](#): > > “Pick up artists” talk about the concept of “negs”. Backhanded complements designed to make a mark (or whatever their term) feel self conscious. This causes the mark to then seek approval and validation. This has never, in the history of Earth, worked on a woman with her head on straight. > [@Theobroma](#): > > Theory #2: Girls, especially younger ones, are attracted to good-looking boys. Boys are likewise attracted to good-looking girls. If that’s your primary reason to be attracted to someone, who even notices personality? It’s not part of the equation. And very attractive people can often (not always!) be jerks, because they can get away with it. Simple, but merited. Physical attraction is a huge component in who we want to be with. A lot of us will put up with a lot more shit from good looking people than we will uglies. I’d be a liar if I said I’ve never been a victim of such a mentality. This is not to say I’ve been willing to forgive assholery on account of looks; honestly, for as long as I could remember, being a bad person actually makes you physically ugly in my eyes. But I am saying if you’re late for our date, I’ll probably let it go if you’re hot. Or, failing that, hilarious. > [@Candyman74](#): > > On a similar note, I know a good few guys who seem attracted to the “bad girl” and been burned. I don’t think it’s a gender-specific thing. Right. The stereotypes go “guys like bitches” and “girls like assholes.” Whatever. Losers of all genders like other losers. Not really more complicated than that. > [@Sampsiceramos](#): > > Sometime lurker making my first post here; at the risk of thread-jacking, I find your statement alarming, in the sense that it is an often repeated and often prejudicial characterization of “nice guys”; a term that, now we’re at it, has a bizarrely prejudicial connotation. > > While it is _most certainly_ descriptive of _some_ self-described “nice guys”, the ones that fulfill your described parameters are, in my admittedly limited experience, most often resemblant of socially dysfunctional recluses, insofar as they actually feel entitlement to a woman. > > It is, however, entirely more common that some men simply have an approach to dating that immediately places them at a disadvantage, usually characterized by their approach not being as “aggressive” as is expected of males in the dating game. What often happens (and as I’ve personally been on the receiving end of) is that guys end up “friend-zoned” - which is quite often an intensely hurtful experience. No offense, doll, but I have never, not even once in all my years of listening to people bitch about their dating lives, encountered one “nice guy” lament that wasn’t voiced by someone who was undesirable in several non-nice-related ways. It has been crystal clear to me every single time why women aren’t game, and it has never –_never_– been because he was “too nice” or wasn’t aggressive enough. The “nice guy” complaint has always, always, always 100% of the time, been expressed by some lamewad who thinks he’s a nice guy, and erroneously concludes the reason women don’t like him is because of his perceived niceness. But this is only one woman’s personal experience, so feel free to ignore. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Yeah…no. You’re projecting I think. Or maybe I just don’t hang with dudes who act that way. I’ve not seen this. Projecting big time. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/66 "2012-04-11T01:13:31Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > So ladies, are you attracted to men who treat you poorly? Have you ever been attracted to those kinds of men? Why or why not? No. No. Because jerkiness isn’t attractive. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/67 "2012-04-11T01:22:45Z")
> [@Jasper\_Kent](#): > > I know a few guys(myself included)who have always been rebellious and dangerously exciting aren’t you precious. ---
**Author:** ![Retrograde\_Wandering\_Stars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/87869e/32.png) [@Retrograde\_Wandering\_Stars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retrograde_Wandering_Stars)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/68 "2012-04-11T21:39:08Z")
I was with a “good guy” for a really long time. He was amazing - and remains one of my best friends. Boredom was a HUGE part of my decision to leave. I am not delusional and I certainly have high self-esteem. I don’t date “bad boys” because I want to reform them. I want someone who will go places and do stuff with me. Unfortunately, most of the adventurous guys turn out to be self-absorbed and immature…but I am self-aware enough to realize that may be a more entertaining fit (at least at the moment) than a homebody who is kind but possesses ideas of fun and goals completely contrary to my own. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/69 "2012-04-12T07:43:46Z")
> [@Lo-Slung\_Denim](#): > > Reasons? Well if it was that simple it would be simple also to rectify. My suggestions are below: > (snip!) > 3. Complete boredom, relieved by a bit of drama. > [@Theobroma](#): > > Hmm. > > Theory #4, as has been well stated above: some girls just love drama, and nice fellows don’t offer enough of that. If you think romance is supposed to be dramatic, maybe you might seek that conflict. I always thought romance was supposed to be happy, so that’s not my thing. I’m trying to walk away from a guy who I still think _is_ a good guy, but right now he’s treating me poorly, and yeah, the above two reasons are why I’m finding it hard! Part of me loves the drama, and spending hours overanalysing whatever cryptic mixed messages he’s sent me this time. And it is boring now I don’t have that to do ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/70 "2012-04-12T08:13:48Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > So ladies, are you attracted to men who treat you poorly? Have you ever been attracted to those kinds of men? Why or why not? I’ve been attracted once to a man despite his treating me poorly. It lasted until I realized that no, it wasn’t culture clash, it was a nasty case of cranio-rectal inversion. I’m not even interested in movie bad boys for the bad-boy-ness. I can look beyond the bad-boy character to decide whether the actor himself is hot or not, but apparently my bad-boy-button is broken. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/71 "2012-04-12T22:06:51Z")
I am not attracted to men who treat me poorly. I’ve never been in love with a guy who was an asshole. I’m usually the first one in my groups of friends to pick out the asshole before the others realize what a jerk he is. Three things have kept me away from jerks: 1. Good models for relationships. My mom and dad have an excellent, happy marriage where my dad expresses a lot of love and affection for my mom despite not being a very lovey dovey person. 2. Lots of brothers and male friends. Men were never a mystery to me. I got along very well with guys and have always treated them as people rather than a mysterious ‘other’. 3. People reading. I love to people watch and study individuals as well as societies. A lot of people betray themselves through their body language and things like microexpressions. I got a perfect score on [this](https://face.paulekman.com/face/default.aspx) free test. Contempt is an expression that a lot of people miss in others, but it’s easy to observe if you know what to look for. > [@Jasper\_Kent](#): > > 1. Why are jerks seen to have confidence? Confident assertiveness is NOT the same thing as asshole aggressiveness. In fact, most jerks have low self-esteem; that’s why they’re jerks! Actually, most studies of bullies suggest that they have high self-esteem. [Cite.](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201010/do-bullies-really-have-low-self-esteem) Aggressiveness also gets them to approach women more. Since women are still socially expected to sit back and let me approach them, men who do more chasing are more likely to pick up women. > [@](#): > > 1. When did “bad boy” come to mean “jerk” ? I know a few guys(myself included)who have always been rebellious and dangerously exciting BUT still treat women well-- _especially_ our girlfriends. I think there’s always been this association. Not that every single ‘bad boy’ is a jerk, but a bad boy is someone who ignores rules and flouts convention. > [@](#): > > 1. When did “nice guy” come to mean “boring” ? Ask anyone who knows me, exes included, and they will tell you I am anything but boring. BUT I can also hold a job and I don’t cheat and have never hit a woman. There’s a subset of guy called Nice Guy who do various things, including putting women on a pedestal. They don’t treat women as people, but as objects to be worshiped. Most people prefer to be in relationships with equals. I’ve seen the reverse of this plenty of time with Hot Messes and books such as [Why Men Love Bitches](http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Love-Bitches-Relationship/dp/1580627560/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334267537&sr=8-1). I know that men are also attracted to women deemed hard to obtain. I asked my husband if my early ‘coldness’ and difficulty to chase made him more interested in me and he said that it did. I think humans in general are attracted to the difficult to obtain. ---
**Author:** ![Jasper\_Kent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@Jasper\_Kent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasper_Kent)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/72 "2012-04-12T22:24:10Z")
“I think humans in general are attracted to the difficult to obtain.” Not me. I dig sluts. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/73 "2012-04-13T07:26:02Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > I think there’s always been this association. Not that every single ‘bad boy’ is a jerk, but a bad boy is someone who ignores rules and flouts convention. From my own experience, people are drawn to other people who are bold, decisive and even a bit irreverant. To put it another way, what’s more attractive? A guy who is afraid to hit on a girl because he’s out of his league? Or a guy who will walk up to the hottest girl in the room and hit on her with no regard for the outcome? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/74 "2012-04-13T14:42:31Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > A man is judged primarily by money and/or potential money, and looks and personality are secondary, though still important. I couldn’t disagree more. If that were true I would have had women falling all over me when I was in my 20s and working as an electrical engineer. Instead my blue collar buddies (who were \*always \*broke) always got the women. Let’s say two people walk into a bar: 1) Me. Short and balding. A nice guy. College educated. Income over $100K/year. 2) My buddy Rob. Bad-boy look & attitude. Tall. Nice hair. Rarely works. Lives in a low-rent apartment. We both start talking w/ women in the bar. Who do you think they’ll pay attention to? Me or Rob? Based on my experience, women \*are \*turned on by bad boys. They love the excitement and “danger” of them. Being tall and having nice hair is also important. I’m not even sure income is in the Top 5. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202/75 "2012-04-13T21:58:25Z")
Yeah, looks are always going to be a priority. That’s the way it crumbles, cookiewise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-are-you-attracted-to-men-who-treat-you-poorly/618202.md?page=3)