# Ladies, check in if you've never been groped (unwillingly) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185 "2013-08-14T03:15:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/41 "2013-08-14T17:05:57Z")
I’m assuming you aren’t including family members in this poll. So, no, I have never been groped by a stranger. To be perfectly frank if that ever happened I would probably have a flashback and lose my fucking shit. It would ruin my day. At least. It’s almost ruining my day just thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/42 "2013-08-14T17:16:17Z")
Re. talking about it: I went to have lunch with two coworkers at the same time that Sanfermines were going on this year. They mentioned that there had been reports of female runners being groped. I said, and it’s still my opinion, that on one hand it isn’t exactly a surprise and on the other it’s highly possible that some of the pics were actual happenstance; I also said that I can tell perfectly well whether I’m being groped or not, yet possibly many pics of someone patting me down without using the reverse of the hand would look exactly like pics of that one patdown where the patter did more than pat. If they hadn’t mentioned the issue, I would never have mentioned having been groped. Both of them said that their wives (one Japanese, one Venezuelan, both living in Barcelona) had had similar responses; neither husband had previously had the foggiest. It’s not something that comes up during casual conversation. And **Spice Weasel** , why would family members not be included? Yes, they are fucking well included, putting you firmly in the “been groped and then some” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/43 "2013-08-14T17:21:10Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > Somehow I always assumed that a guy who deliberately touched a strange woman’s boobs, butt or crotch in public would be risking arrest for sexual assault. Apparently women don’t take it that seriously? Or it simply happens so often that it’s too much of a hassle to raise a fuss? This thread actually surprises me. I can understand the situations where a woman is groped by a date or someone they know and simply refuse the contact, but how do you not call the cops if a stranger tries to grab your breast? I’ve never had a stranger grab my breast, but a bunch of strangers have grabbed my ass when I used to go to clubs. Somehow that seems not as bad? That doesn’t make much sense though when I think about it. I don’t care at the club anyway but if someone did it at another place I would be pissed. But I wouldn’t do anything about it. What is there to do? It’s just not that big of a deal to me I guess. I mean, it’s horrible and anyone who would do that is an asshole, so it bothers me on principle, but other than that, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/44 "2013-08-14T17:53:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And **Spice Weasel** , why would family members not be included? Yes, they are fucking well included, putting you firmly in the “been groped and then some” camp. Well, the OP specified a public space, so I thought the poll was more about stranger groping in public places. Still, I think it _is_ remarkable that I have never been groped by a stranger.\* \*When I was about 10 or 12 there was this little boy, 5 or 6 years old, who kept pinching my ass and thought it was funny when I told him to knock it off. I leave it up to the masses to decide whether or not that counts. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/45 "2013-08-14T18:15:35Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > \*When I was about 10 or 12 there was this little boy, 5 or 6 years old, who kept pinching my ass and thought it was funny when I told him to knock it off. I leave it up to the masses to decide whether or not that counts. Oooo, that reminds me of the fuckwit mom who brought her 5 or 6 year old boy into the woman’s bathroom. He literally would walk up to the little crack in the door and put his eye to it and stare at the women peeing. I only noticed because he did it to me, and I screamed\* - she just giggled and said, “Oh, you know, boys.” We indoctrinate them right from the start. \*Not like a horror movie scream. Just, like, a quick loud gasp. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/46 "2013-08-14T18:22:44Z")
> [@NeonMadman](#): > > Somehow I always assumed that a guy who deliberately touched a strange woman’s boobs, butt or crotch in public would be risking arrest for sexual assault. Apparently women don’t take it that seriously? Or it simply happens so often that it’s too much of a hassle to raise a fuss? This thread actually surprises me. I can understand the situations where a woman is groped by a date or someone they know and simply refuse the contact, but how do you not call the cops if a stranger tries to grab your breast? Because it’s a he said/she said situation? Also how do you think the following scenario would go down with the cops? “Yes officer, some guy who was maybe 6’2” and wearing a red sweatshirt groped me on the subway an hour ago. Shockingly, he did not leave me a forwarding address or a social security number. Maybe you will be able to lift his fingerprints off of my tits." ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/47 "2013-08-14T18:27:07Z")
I hope that, if someone truly gropes me, I have the guts to yell at them so that it can be heard, and that the person is at least publicly shamed, if only for a moment. I know friends and relatives who have done that, had people corner them in the bus, and they have spoken out. In both cases, the harasser was kicked out of the bus prior to destination. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/48 "2013-08-14T18:30:51Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > My wife is generally very observant of her surroundings. Shes told me she’s gotten groped a few times, but the few times its happened she responded with violence. I’ve only responded with “violence” once. I was 17 and early enough in pregnancy that you couldn’t tell, but my mama bear hormones were already in effect. Guy groped me at work and I dumped an ice cream sundae in his lap. He jumped up and started yelling for the manager, who was behind the ice cream counter watching the whole thing. He looked at the guy for a long moment, then turned his head to me and said, “So…WhyNot…you need another hot fudge, hold the whip?” Cracked me up, pissed the guy off, and the boss assured him that it would never happen again as he was no longer welcome in our restaurant, ever. He was a good boss. Every other time it’s happened, I admit I haven’t done anything other than move myself away from the offender and shoot a dirty look. And I’ve certainly never told my mom, who would worry, or my dad or brothers, who would get pissed off and not be able to do anything about it. I don’t think not hearing about it from your family members is a good indication that it hasn’t happened to them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/49 "2013-08-14T18:33:15Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’ve only responded with “violence” once. I was 17 and early enough in pregnancy that you couldn’t tell, but my mama bear hormones were already in effect. Guy groped me at work and I dumped an ice cream sundae in his lap. He jumped up and started yelling for the manager, who was behind the ice cream counter watching the whole thing. He looked at the guy for a long moment, then turned his head to me and said, “So…WhyNot…you need another hot fudge, hold the whip?” > > Cracked me up, pissed the guy off, and the boss assured him that it would never happen again as he was no longer welcome in our restaurant, ever. He was a good boss. That was a deeply satisfying story. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/50 "2013-08-14T19:02:09Z")
If we’re relating stories… some years back I was out for a bike ride out on a trail. Some teenager and his buddy were riding on the trail too. Said kid kept speeding up til he was almost alongside me (his front wheel at my rear wheel), and then dropping back. Over and over. I noticed, and was vaguely irritated because I was riding at a consistent pace and if he wanted to pass me why not just pass me and be done with it? Turns out he didn’t want to pass, which I discovered when he finally managed to pull up close enough to grab my ass. What he clearly wasn’t expecting was my immediate reaction to throw down my bike and run after him. Since he was less than two feet away from me and no place to hide/disappear into a crowd, I caught him easily, grabbed his shirt, and hauled him off his bike. I didn’t hit him, but made damn sure he thought I was going to. He whined “Sorry! Sorry!” over and over while I screamed in his face about how much of a little shit he was. His friend… dunno what happened to him. He didn’t interfere, anyway, perhaps too shocked. I have a feeling they remembered me every time thereafter that they were tempted to grope someone. I made sure to tell him not to forget. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/51 "2013-08-14T19:02:40Z")
Interesting thread. I’m a dude and have never been groped. As it happens, I was just reading today about H.H. Asquith, the British prime minister in the first half of World War I, and came across this surprising passage in Wiki: \*Asquith also had a reputation as a groper. Clementine Churchill complained of his habit of peering down the top of dresses, while the socialite Lady Ottoline Morrell claimed that Asquith ‘would take a lady’s hand as she sat beside him on the sofa, and make her feel his erected instrument under his trousers’. Another woman complained of his ‘drooling, high thigh-stroking advances’. \* I’m amazed that wasn’t a career-ender in that day and age. > [@ASanders](#): > > Growing up in NYC in the 70s it was a general risk of riding the subway… Still a problem in the tightly-packed Tokyo subway, at least as of 2005: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/1483150/Record-number-of-women-groped-on-Tokyos-subway.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/1483150/Record-number-of-women-groped-on-Tokyos-subway.html) ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/52 "2013-08-14T19:06:31Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Careful, please. It’s not like those that have been groped were wearing our potential victim-hood on our sleeve. It’s less, I think, about the way an individual woman carries herself than about boundary issues some guys have. Did I say that? Did I say anything in my post about the behavior of those it has happened to? No. If the OP only wanted people to answer “yes” to his question, then he shouldn’t have asked it. I mentioned the NYC subway because others mentioned the subway and it’s not like it is some hotbed of skeevy gropers, where a woman can’t ride in peace. Perhaps it once was in the 70s, but nowadays it is very safe. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/53 "2013-08-14T19:42:32Z")
I assumed the “this” included the whole quote, including the last bit (about how she carried herself). If not, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/54 "2013-08-14T20:04:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > \*Asquith also had a reputation as a groper. Clementine Churchill complained of his habit of peering down the top of dresses, while the socialite Lady Ottoline Morrell claimed that Asquith ‘would take a lady’s hand as she sat beside him on the sofa, and make her feel his erected instrument under his trousers’. Another woman complained of his ‘drooling, high thigh-stroking advances’. > \* > I’m amazed that wasn’t a career-ender in that day and age. Good goddamn. Women should have started carrying little knives and stabbing him in the hand every time he got started with that. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/55 "2013-08-14T21:15:22Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Behind his back we called him a nickname based around his first name, let’s say it was “Rapin’ Rob.” Some of us said it around the “cooler” teachers and they’d just minorly cluck at us, in a way that seemed disapproving of being disrespectful. One of the big advantages to the prevalance of phone cameras these days! > [@Kaio](#): > > No, it’s not, and I, for one, am well and truly sick of being blamed for these guys’ unwillingness to control themselves. > > “Correct” is saying to the _guy_ “next time keep your damn hands to yourself.” Making me responsible for _someone else’s_ bad behavior is seriously whacked. You’re not responsible for their behavior, but you are responsible for your own safety. You’re dead right that you’re not to be blamed. However, you are utterly responsible for the fact that different behavior on your part makes bad behavior of others more or less likely. It’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility. > [@WhyNot](#): > > Guy groped me at work and I dumped an ice cream sundae in his lap. He jumped up and started yelling for the manager, who was behind the ice cream counter watching the whole thing. He looked at the guy for a long moment, then turned his head to me and said, “So…WhyNot…you need another hot fudge, hold the whip?” Great story! > [@Kaio](#): > > I didn’t hit him, but made damn sure he thought I was going to. He whined “Sorry! Sorry!” over and over while I screamed in his face about how much of a little shit he was. His friend… dunno what happened to him. He didn’t interfere, anyway, perhaps too shocked. Good for you! Our hero. 🙂 * * * Walking down the street at a big art fair, a guy bumped me out of the way and ran his hand lasciviously across the ass of a woman standing nearby, facing away from us. He sped on (walking briskly). I was so stunned I just froze. The woman (very nice looking, athletic, wearing shorts & tshirt) turned and gave me the worst evil eye I’ve ever received. I don’t remember whether she yelled anything, but if looks could kill I wouldn’t be writing this. I just stood there looking shocked (I assume, or stupid, or something) but turned to look at the offender. Fortunately for my peace of mind, he turned around and gave a really nasty wink. She just turned and walked away. I’m sure there were police nearby, but the guy would have been gone long before anything could have been said. I don’t envy the polices’ position here. If they were to assume that every complaint was valid, it’s certain that there’d be invalid complaints. It’s a terrible situation, but you need to have some kind of proof or at least good corroboration. It’s inexcusable for teachers to tut-tut and just ignore a student making a serious complaint. But calling the offending teacher names around the water cooler isn’t a serious complaint, and probably does deserve a tut-tut. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/56 "2013-08-14T21:32:02Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > You’re not responsible for their behavior, but you are responsible for your own safety. You’re dead right that you’re not to be blamed. However, you are utterly responsible for the fact that different behavior on your part makes bad behavior of others more or less likely. It’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility. The point is, it shouldn’t be an inherent risk to my safety to read on a train or walk around in public. Don’t tell ME that I “shouldn’t have” done whatever, while not even addressing what the guy shouldn’t have done. This is victim-blaming. She was asking for it. Did you see the way she was dressed? Goes back to: > [@Tori Amos](#): > > We spend so much time teaching little girls how not to get raped. Why is no one teaching little boys not TO rape? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/57 "2013-08-14T21:48:24Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Walking down the street at a big art fair, a guy bumped me out of the way and ran his hand lasciviously across the ass of a woman standing nearby, facing away from us. He sped on (walking briskly). I was so stunned I just froze. The woman (very nice looking, athletic, wearing shorts & tshirt) turned and gave me the worst evil eye I’ve ever received. I don’t remember whether she yelled anything, but if looks could kill I wouldn’t be writing this. I just stood there looking shocked (I assume, or stupid, or something) but turned to look at the offender. Fortunately for my peace of mind, he turned around and gave a really nasty wink. She just turned and walked away. I’m sure there were police nearby, but the guy would have been gone long before anything could have been said. I understand you were stunned. And quite rightly, and equally, a lot of women are stunned and with a 😕 :mad: when that happens. Hence, some may not react at all in any way that others have commented they would have (violence, yelling, some sort of reaction). Some may be so stunned to see it than when they react, the groper is gone, and what can they do? But, I also want to point something else in your narrative. It is not only for the victims to speak out. You saw the incident happening, and you didn’t react. You saw someone being victimized, and you didn’t yell, scream, or did anything. Women cannot stopped groping by themselves, those around them, including men, should speak up and tell the other person he is wrong. He should know society at large, not just that woman, dislikes his behavior. I hope you never have to notice groping again, but if you do, speak up! Help out! There’s also the chance that the woman not only gave you the evil eye because she thought you did it, but even if she knew it couldn’t be you, you did nothing to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/58 "2013-08-14T22:23:39Z")
Nope, never been groped. The only unwelcomed touching I’ve experienced is old women touching my hair without permission. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/59 "2013-08-15T02:36:40Z")
I’ve heard from several pregnant women, incl. my sister, that little old ladies like to pat their tummies. Just asked my wife, age 48, if she’d ever been groped, and she said no. So there’s one. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185/60 "2013-08-15T03:13:59Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > It’s inexcusable for teachers to tut-tut and just ignore a student making a serious complaint. But calling the offending teacher names around the water cooler isn’t a serious complaint, and probably does deserve a tut-tut. We were soooo rude for being mean to the pervert behind his back. Yup, we could bitch about the leering teacher to the point where it became part of passed-down knowledge to the younger girls every year, but don’t call him names because someone might actually confront you then! His behavior wasn’t a secret. Everyone knew. So who the hell was going to make a “serious complaint” in that kind of environment? What were you going to say, “he comes past my desk to ask me if I need help and leans over my shoulder - but he does it more when I’m wearing a low-cut top”? Even though it was blatantly obvious, it was a student’s word against a teacher’s. (By the way, how was the woman in your anecdote not watching out for her own safety? Should she have installed rear-view mirrors?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-check-in-if-youve-never-been-groped-unwillingly/666185.md?page=4)