# Ladies, chivalrous or chauvinistic? Guys, do you consider yourselves chivalrous? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2000, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660 "2000-09-26T21:23:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2000, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/41 "2000-09-28T22:43:31Z")
Strainger wrote: > [@](#): > > **Carrying stuff:** I’ll pretty much ask anyone if he/she needs assitance in carrying something, if it looks like a pretty big load. Carrying a heavy load for a woman is more than merely “courteous” or “chivalrous.” It’s a way to show off your manly heavy-lift capacity. One woman confided in me that having a guy come along and change her flat tire when she was stranded by the side of the road was a _huge_ turn-on for her. ---
**Author:** ![timmar68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@timmar68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/timmar68)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/42 "2000-09-29T03:38:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by porcupine \* > \*\ ***MaryAnnQ** , > > Your friend (is she actually your friend? I hope for your sake she’s just an acquaintance) is quite a bitch, isn’t she?\*\* At the time, she had NO friends (just aquaintances). But my boyfriend of the time had a friend over for the weekend and wanted to go out so he asked if I minded if we did a double date. He wouldn’t tell me who she was going to be. His friend didn’t know her and she as the only person free so he asked her to go. She WANTED people to think she was mean, believe it or not. She wanted people to think, “Uhoh, don’t mess with her!”. When I saw she was going to be the date I about flat-out refused to go. But my boyfriend talked me into it. I warned him that she’d better behave. Well, I told you the story. A few days later she was being a bitch again and I had it. I called her on it and she swung at me. I beat the hell out of her. And then we became best friends after that (believe it or not!)! She was as sweet as pie to me and we had a long talk after awhile. She changed her ways and became the nicest girl you ever wanted to know. She thought people avoided her because she was cool (think:tough) but when I told her that everyone genuinely hated her she was actually very surprised. She asked me for advice on how to be friends and I helped her out by telling people to give her a chance and they did. We were inseparable after that. Unfortunately she died from diabetes a few years ago ☹ but I have good memories of her. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/43 "2000-09-29T04:25:21Z")
I suppose that, since I have held court here describing how a “gentleman” acts, I have to say yes. I work at it, imagining my parents watching me. They didn’t raise no bums. Then living in 17th century Virginia (they never left 1675 except the ones whose happiness ended in April, 1865) for a few of my formative years didn’t help. I know how to behave. I tell my children how to behave. Not surprisingly, I tell their little gentleman friends how to behave. That’s the job of us old farts, male and female. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/44 "2000-09-29T07:46:25Z")
struuter, I’m so sorry about your son being insulted. It’s worse when you’re helping someone, because you’re not expecting it. There isn’t any quick fix. Perhaps you could tell him: - there are unpleasant people around, but most are decent - being polite means you get to meet (and be with) other polite people. The rude jerks tend to hang out with each other - ‘Aggression gets attention, but courtesy gets respect’. I think the best comeback to insults is to stay polite. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![MattTheCroc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MattTheCroc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MattTheCroc)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/45 "2000-09-29T10:37:24Z")
This is an issue that kinda bugs me; people who believe that women ‘deserve’ this kind of treatment while men don’t. I feel the same way about ‘manners’ like not having your elbows on the table. In what conceivable way does this affect anyone else? Well, back to the point, anyway… I’ll do the same things for guys and gals; if it will take me an extra second to spare someone opening a door, I’ll do it. But everyone can open their own door, dammit. I don’t know why it bugs me so much, but it does. I’m kinda like this for all things; it bothers me when people think they “deserve” something else for something they had no control over. And of course, the obligatory bad story; I held a door open for some snooty woman who looked all derogatory at me (no eye contact of course) and just pushed me out of the way as though she had more right to be there than me. ---
**Author:** ![MattTheCroc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MattTheCroc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MattTheCroc)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/46 "2000-09-29T10:42:01Z")
The second mentioning of door should of course be “car door”. If, by some chance of fate, they were getting in the same door as me, I’d hold it open for them… A thing I just remembered; presents. I saw a rerun of the Simpsons where Apu was doing all this great stuff for his wife and Marge was annoyed that Homer spent more on “removable tatooes than presents for me”. But never did _she_ have to buy _him_ presents. Similar issue in Seinfeld where George and Jerry were discussing how they wanted at least a “reach” for the check at a restaurant. I don’t want to make any vast overgeneralisations, but men always seem to be the ones that foot the bill… Plus there’s the whole men making the first move, men having to call etc… And I wonder why I don’t have a girlfriend 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/47 "2000-09-29T10:56:04Z")
struuter, I had a further thought about your son’s unfair treatment. Perhaps you could reward him for good behaviour with, say, chocolate (Homer Simpson voice: ‘mmmm…chocolate!’). But if a boor insults him, then he gets double the reward. Obviously each family has its own style, but you can see how I believe polite people should try to help each other. ---
**Author:** ![struuter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@struuter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/struuter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/48 "2000-09-29T13:09:40Z")
Zen and glee, thanks for you help. My son is a really sweet kid, and I have hopes that he’ll grow up like you say, Zen–and learn the important lesson of knowing when to pick his battles. He’s always looked much older than his age and it’s presented quite a few problems along the way–I guess these kids thought he was their age and, I don’t know, maybe would think that was funny. I sure as hell didn’t. I’d like to clobber them–but that’s not polite. 🙂 Thanks again. And thanks Strainger for being a gentleman about my hi-jacking your thread. Much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Stella\_Fantasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@Stella\_Fantasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stella_Fantasia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/49 "2000-09-29T13:43:01Z")
I think chivalry is great, but too many people forget that it goes both ways! It’s not just a guys-being-extra-nice-to-chicks thing. I always try to be my BF’s Gallant Damsel in Shining Armor. 😃 Whose bonehead idea was it that girls like to get flowers and candy and compliments but guys don’t? I have a problem with a couple of aspects of chivalry, though…like, it assumes that all chicks are “ladies”. I’m always nervous when I’m expected to be a “lady”. I am concerned that this might mean I’m not supposed to swear, drink beer directly from the bottle, or ask guys out. And what’s the fun in that? Also, I pay my own way. Always. Too many times it has happened to me that a guy paid for dinner under the guise of chivalry, and then expected me to do some most unladylike things to him in the back of his car later on. I always pay for myself so nobody can feel like I “owe” them anything. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/50 "2000-09-29T16:47:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Stella_Fantasia \* > **I think chivalry is great, but too many people forget that it goes both ways! It’s not just a guys-being-extra-nice-to-chicks thing. I always try to be my BF’s Gallant Damsel in Shining Armor. 😃 Whose bonehead idea was it that girls like to get flowers and candy and compliments but guys don’t?** Hooray! I never had a favorite amongst the posters here, but now I do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Welfy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e56c9b/32.png) [@Welfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Welfy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/51 "2000-09-29T19:29:50Z")
> [@](#): > > : _Conner_[BR]Oh lord do I hate the term “chivalry”. Probably stems from the guy who lived across the hall from me who said that word ENTIRELY too much. When asked what he wanted to do with his life, or what his dreams were, he would inevitably go all dreamy-eyed and talk about wanting to be a knight in medieval times. Did his name happen to be Don Quixote? ;^) ---
**Author:** ![StompyGodzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@StompyGodzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StompyGodzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/52 "2000-09-29T21:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skribbler \* > \*\*Chivalrous. > > I believe in courtesy. Plus I’ve been around a lot of rednecks and assholes in my time who seem to feel that they own their ‘wimmin’ and ‘caint unnerstand’ why the gal don’t listen and they just gotta whomp her now and then. > > I like opening doors, standing when a lady comes in during a formal dinner, buying dinner, drinks, movie tickets and gifts. I like her opinions, comments and to have her disagree with me if I’m wrong or even if I’m not wrong and she thinks I am. \*\* Skribbler, I think I’m in love! And me a happily married woman… Stompy ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/53 "2000-09-29T21:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by struuter \* > \*\*Zen and glee, thanks for you help. My son is a really sweet kid, and I have hopes that he’ll grow up like you say, Zen–and learn the important lesson of knowing when to pick his battles. \*\* **Struuter** , you just made all 500 posts worthwhile in one short sentence. My five hundredth post sorta slipped by this morning. I thought about doing a post party, but instead, I’ve been paid one of the nicest compliments in my entire life. Thank You From The Bottom Of My Heart, Chris PS: I can only be sure that your son will be a continuing comfort to you all of your life. ---
**Author:** ![struuter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@struuter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/struuter)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2000, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660/54 "2000-10-02T13:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > > **Struuter** , you just made all 500 posts worthwhile in one short sentence. My five hundredth post sorta slipped by this morning. I thought about doing a post party, but instead, I’ve been paid one of the nicest compliments in my entire life. > > Thank You From The Bottom Of My Heart, > > Chris > > PS: I can only be sure that your son will be a continuing comfort to you all of your life. > > \*\* First, I apologize for dragging this back up again–but I needed to respond. Secondly, I apologize to you, Zen, for not responding sooner, but I am offline on weekends. Okay, that done, I have to tell you how very sweet it was of you to write the above. It really does leave me at a loss for words (more so that usual). I only wish I had as much substance in my posts as you do in yours. And I have twice as many as you–something for me to live up to, I suppose. 🙂 When you do decide to indulge and have a post party (they are simply wonderful for the old self-esteem), I will be the first one there, jumping out of the cake, singing louder than anyone else…For He’s a Jolly Good Fellow. Thank you so much, b [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-chivalrous-or-chauvinistic-guys-do-you-consider-yourselves-chivalrous/34660.md?page=2)