# Ladies: How bad was this? (A slight cat call I guess) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 16, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552 "2013-02-16T22:52:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/141 "2013-02-19T03:24:49Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Aren’t you doing a little bit of conflating here? Who said anything to any woman anywhere in this thread about how badly they wanted to fuck them? “Hot mama” is commenting on that woman’s attractiveness, _not_ on the level of desire one has to fuck that woman. It’s still inappropriate but not what you are describing it as here. Are you serious? Catcalling is telling a woman how much you want to fuck her, nothing else. In this case since Shakes was speaking only to his son and hoping not to be heard he was telling his son how bad he wanted to fuck those women. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/142 "2013-02-19T03:27:21Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Aren’t you doing a little bit of conflating here? Who said anything to any woman anywhere in this thread about how badly they wanted to fuck them? “Hot mama” is commenting on that woman’s attractiveness, _not_ on the level of desire one has to fuck that woman. It’s still inappropriate but not what you are describing it as here. What does “hot” mean to you? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/143 "2013-02-19T03:34:07Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > What does “hot” mean to you? Physically attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/144 "2013-02-19T03:40:20Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Physically attractive. Presumably you wouldn’t call a cute 8 year old girl hot, so that terminology pretty much does refer to sexual attractiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/145 "2013-02-19T03:54:19Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Presumably you wouldn’t call a cute 8 year old girl hot, so that terminology pretty much does refer to sexual attractiveness. [offtopic] Oh god, that reminds me of Halloween in 6th grade, where some 70+ year old woman told my friend’s girlfriend (in a I Dream of Jeannie-esque genie costume) that she looked “sexy”. That was really, really weird. [/offtopic] ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/146 "2013-02-19T04:01:04Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > In my experience, as a 100-lb woman who nonetheless comports herself with a lot of confidence and generally finds it easy to mold other’s behavior with my own actions: confronting them with aggression escalated the bad behavior, sometimes to a scary and dangerous level. While acknowledging it (with eye contact) and dismissing it (by not engaging them positively or negatively), takes the wind right out of their sails. I’ve been experimenting with this for 10 years; but it’s JMHO. YMMV. Etc. > > Your average dude who screams things at strange woman on the street is not going to feel ‘unsafe’ in any way if said woman screams back. Sassback only has a shot at working if whoever you’re using it on likes to think of themselves as someone who respects women. It is kind of like non-violent resistance: it might work on the English, but probably won’t get you anywhere with the SS. You have a brief moment in which to decide whether the person you’re dealing with is more of a Winston Churchill or a Heinrich Himmler kind of guy. In practice, it probably isn’t something most people would consider trying unless they are accompanied by friends. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/147 "2013-02-19T04:01:36Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Presumably you wouldn’t call a cute 8 year old girl hot, so that terminology pretty much does refer to sexual attractiveness. Physical attractiveness/sexual attractiveness, ok. So what? Someone commenting on a person’s sexual attractiveness is NOT synonymous with saying they want to fuck them. What about a gay man commenting on a “hot” woman? Is he commenting on how much he wants to stick his penis in one of her orifices? Or is he commenting on her attractiveness and nothing more? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/148 "2013-02-19T04:03:49Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Presumably you wouldn’t call a cute 8 year old girl hot, so that terminology pretty much does refer to sexual attractiveness. I wouldn’t call ANY 8 year old girl “attractive”. Who would she be attracting? Not me (or anyone else of sound mind that I could imagine), so I surely wouldn’t describe her that way. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/149 "2013-02-19T04:05:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Physical attractiveness/sexual attractiveness, ok. So what? Someone commenting on a person’s sexual attractiveness is NOT synonymous with saying they want to fuck them. What about a gay man commenting on a “hot” woman? Is he commenting on how much he wants to stick his penis in one of her orifices? Or is he commenting on her attractiveness and nothing more? Don’t know/never heard that/doesn’t remotely apply here. If you would feel pervy saying it to an 8 year old girl, it probably has sexual connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/150 "2013-02-19T04:07:23Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I wouldn’t call ANY 8 year old girl “attractive”. Who would she be attracting? Not me (or anyone else of sound mind that I could imagine), so I surely wouldn’t describe her that way. Nice edit, but still: no. You certainly could say “cute kid” but “hot kid” would probably earn you a parking lot confrontation extravaganza. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/151 "2013-02-19T04:09:52Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Physical attractiveness/sexual attractiveness, ok. So what? Someone commenting on a person’s sexual attractiveness is NOT synonymous with saying they want to fuck them. What about a gay man commenting on a “hot” woman? Is he commenting on how much he wants to stick his penis in one of her orifices? Or is he commenting on her attractiveness and nothing more? I am not sure if you have noticed this, but gay men don’t typically go around commenting on how attractive women are. I have a little theory about why this is! ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/152 "2013-02-19T04:14:11Z")
> [@colander](#): > > I am not sure if you have noticed this, but gay men don’t typically go around commenting on how attractive women are. > > I have a little theory about why this is! Are you telling me you’ve never heard a gay man tell a woman how “hot” she is? I flat out don’t believe you. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/153 "2013-02-19T04:15:32Z")
What should shakes have done? I’m thinking just keeping his mouth shut, and not aknowledging it either positively or negatively would have been the best course of action. Shakes made a bad move in that he was not modeling the absolute most respectful manner possible at the time. But I think he was trying to make his son laugh more than anything. It wasn’t even directed at the women. I can imagine this was quite obvious to the women in question. “Sexy Mammas?” That’s obviously a joke. I get that women have to fear for their safety at times, and it’s annoying to have to put up with these remarks on a consistent basis. Emphasizing these points is important as well. However, in this particular case, I don’t think the scorn is warranted. There’s a difference between a cat call and friendly banter. This was not a cat-call and not really that bad at all. But, sincerely speaking, what do I know? I’m a man. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/154 "2013-02-19T04:18:21Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Nice edit, but still: no. You certainly could say “cute kid” but “hot kid” would probably earn you a parking lot confrontation extravaganza. Huh? I agree with this completely, I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. I’d never refer to a kid as any sort of “attractive”, whether we’re calling it physically attractive or sexually attractive. Of course I’d never call a kid “hot”. I don’t know if we’re getting our wires crossed or there is some misunderstanding or what… ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/155 "2013-02-19T04:20:48Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Are you telling me you’ve never heard a gay man tell a woman how “hot” she is? I flat out don’t believe you. If you’re trying to tell us that shakes is gay and therefore his unsolicited parking lot appraisal is thus rendered innocuous, the answer is still “overtly sexual” because the women couldn’t know if his orientation on sight. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/156 "2013-02-19T04:21:41Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > What should shakes have done? > > I’m thinking just keeping his mouth shut, and not aknowledging it either positively or negatively would have been the best course of action. > > Shakes made a bad move in that he was not modeling the absolute most respectful manner possible at the time. But I think he was trying to make his son laugh more than anything. It wasn’t even directed at the women. I can imagine this was quite obvious to the women in question. “Sexy Mammas?” That’s obviously a joke. > > I get that women have to fear for their safety at times, and it’s annoying to have to put up with these remarks on a consistent basis. Emphasizing these points is important as well. However, in this particular case, I don’t think the scorn is warranted. > > There’s a difference between a cat call and friendly banter. This was not a cat-call and not really that bad at all. > > But, sincerely speaking, what do I know? I’m a man. nm ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/157 "2013-02-19T04:24:19Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Huh? I agree with this completely, I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. I’d never refer to a kid as any sort of “attractive”, whether we’re calling it physically attractive or sexually attractive. Of course I’d never call a kid “hot”. I don’t know if we’re getting our wires crossed or there is some misunderstanding or what… Because “hot” has overtly sexual connotations. It wasn’t a benign compliment; it was suggestive and mildly offensive. Don’t believe “hot” has sexual connotations? Try it on a cute kid. If it doesn’t fit, it’s because the comment is sexual. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/158 "2013-02-19T04:29:09Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Because “hot” has overtly sexual connotations. It wasn’t a benign compliment; it was suggestive and mildly offensive. Don’t believe “hot” has sexual connotations? Try it on a cut kid. If it doesn’t fit, it’s because the comment is sexual. I’m not disagreeing that “hot” has sexual connotations but to make the leap from that to suggest that it is a comment describing a desire to copulate is lacking in logic, IMO. It can be a recognition of a person’s sexual attractiveness without it being an implication of personal desire. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/159 "2013-02-19T04:42:18Z")
Wow. I’m really behind the times. I had no idea that calling someone a “sexy momma” meant you wanted fuck her. As was mentioned up thread, the whole comment sounds so cheesy that I would’ve taken it to be more of a teasing thing at the son for even noticing. How would I have reacted? I would’ve rolled my eyes and kept walking. Part of being a female IS evaluating what might happen and a man with his son, in a grocery store parking lot in broad daylight wouldn’t have posed a threat to me. So, maybe annoying, but overall a non-issue. Did she overreact? Meh, I can see her response as both okay in that it addressed the appropriate aspect (modeling behavior) and slightly over the top for mentioning it in the first place. But then, I realize that’s just me and other women view these situations differently. I’m glad **Shakes** apologized and talked to his son. I’m sure he’ll be more cognizant of this sort of thing in the future. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552/160 "2013-02-19T04:49:01Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Did she overreact? Meh, I can see her response as both okay in that it addressed the appropriate aspect (modeling behavior) and slightly over the top for mentioning it in the first place. But then, I realize that’s just me and other women view these situations differently. I’m glad **Shakes** apologized and talked to his son. I’m sure he’ll be more cognizant of this sort of thing in the future. He only apologized to the women and spoke to his son \*because \*she mentioned it. It’s a bit disingenuous to give him credit for those responses while saying she was overreacting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-bad-was-this-a-slight-cat-call-i-guess/650552.md?page=9)