# Ladies, how do you feel when you catch a man looking at you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055 "2016-06-22T16:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/121 "2016-06-27T15:12:11Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I’m a woman, and i don’t know a single woman who would genuinely, permanently want a sexually segregated society. i also don’t know any women who would consider surgery to make themselves look homely. Clothes and attitude go a long way toward that, if desired, and is reversible. it’s fun to be able to look good when it’s desired. > > And as puzzlegal said, most of my friends are men, too. Why would i want to have a society where i can’t be friends with guys? And no, that doesn’t mean i need “conscious - raising.” It’s not a matter of wanting a society where I can’t be friends with guys, it’s accepting the lesser of two evils. I’ve had plenty of male friends over the years. Some of those friendships have ended badly because no matter how long we had been friends or what we had experienced together, some of it quite horrific, they just could not accept the concept that my body was absolutely, irrevocably off-limits. The few long term male friends I have all come from cultures were it is understand if you respect a woman (and she is not your wife or a blood relative) there can never even be the appearance of physical contact with her. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/122 "2016-06-27T15:14:32Z")
Yes, but do you understand that we do not all agree on this? I don’t mind touching or being touched by the few close male friends I have. I don’t even mind if sexual thoughts have crossed their minds. They have never acted on them, and I don’t have a problem with casual physical contact. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/123 "2016-06-27T16:46:08Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Yes, but do you understand that we do not all agree on this? I don’t mind touching or being touched by the few close male friends I have. I don’t even mind if sexual thoughts have crossed their minds. They have never acted on them, and I don’t have a problem with casual physical contact. This. In the right circumstances, I appreciate a hug from a platonic male friend. I am comfortable shaking hands with anyone (even a dog) unless they have a scary rash or something. I don’t care whether my male (or lesbian) friends have had sexual thoughts about me, so long as they know that it’s not going to happen, and respect my boundaries. I hope that your friends, and ZPG Zealot’s friends, respect your respective boundaries, too, realizing that each person has slightly different boundaries, and sometimes very different boundaries. And in turn, we each owe it to our friends to be somewhat clear about what our boundaries ARE, especially if we come from different backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/124 "2016-06-27T17:00:16Z")
I agree with Anaamika and puzzlegal. As long as my friends respect my boundaries, i don’t mind whatever thoughts they have. Casual physical contact is not the horror you seem to be implying it is. I’m not a very physical person as a rule, but a handshake or a hug is not harassment nor is it rape. You are proposing a “solution” for everyone in response to a problem only you have. A more reasonable solution for your problem is isolating yourself, not segregating the sexes. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/125 "2016-06-27T17:05:57Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > This. > > In the right circumstances, I appreciate a hug from a platonic male friend. I am comfortable shaking hands with anyone (even a dog) unless they have a scary rash or something. I don’t care whether my male (or lesbian) friends have had sexual thoughts about me, so long as they know that it’s not going to happen, and respect my boundaries. > > I hope that your friends, and ZPG Zealot’s friends, respect your respective boundaries, too, realizing that each person has slightly different boundaries, and sometimes very different boundaries. And in turn, we each owe it to our friends to be somewhat clear about what our boundaries ARE, especially if we come from different backgrounds. And regardless of the circumstances, I know many women that would not appreciate any touch whatsoever from a platonic male friend. And if the man is actually that a platonic male friend he will respect it. Unfortunately, I have learned too many men claim they want to be friends when what they really want is sex. You know, the professional “Nice Guys.” I have always made it very, very clear as in within seconds what my boundaries are. Most of the women I know do. The problem is we get ignored. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/126 "2016-06-27T17:10:18Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I agree with Anaamika and puzzlegal. As long as my friends respect my boundaries, i don’t mind whatever thoughts they have. Casual physical contact is not the horror you seem to be implying it is. I’m not a very physical person as a rule, but a handshake or a hug is not harassment nor is it rape. > > You are proposing a “solution” for everyone in response to a problem only you have. A more reasonable solution for your problem is isolating yourself, not segregating the sexes. When a man continues to try to touch a woman having been warned multiple times (or quite frankly more than once should be sufficient) not to touch a woman it is definitely harassment with any Human Resources Department I have ever worked with and in most courts of law it’s assault. It’s humiliating and a way of wearing down her resistance against further violence that is part of a the continuum of violence against women that should never be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/127 "2016-06-27T17:11:57Z")
“Professional” Nice Guys? Someone will pay be for it? Where do I apply? And really, is your standard introduction, “Hello, my name is ZPG Zealot. Don’t touch me, ever.”? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/128 "2016-06-27T17:23:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > When a man continues to try to touch a woman having been warned multiple times (or quite frankly more than once should be sufficient) not to touch a woman it is definitely harassment with any Human Resources Department I have ever worked with and in most courts of law it’s assault. It’s humiliating and a way of wearing down her resistance against further violence that is part of a the continuum of violence against women that should never be tolerated. Most men respect boundaries at least in my experience. Those who do not are the problem, not the norm. That is why hr can and should act on it - and courts of law as well. If your boundary is no physical contact ever, i fully support you not being touched ever. But i can’t support your beliefs defining my boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/129 "2016-06-27T17:36:12Z")
You have to consider that ZPG Zealot believes that a [male attempting to shake hands with a woman is a fairly reliable indicator of an intention to rape](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12949046&postcount=46). ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/130 "2016-06-27T17:52:31Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > “Professional” Nice Guys? Someone will pay be for it? Where do I apply? > > And really, is your standard introduction, “Hello, my name is ZPG Zealot. Don’t touch me, ever.”? In some situations, it has been, though I wouldn’t bother adding Hello in the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/131 "2016-06-27T17:54:09Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Most men respect boundaries at least in my experience. Those who do not are the problem, not the norm. That is why hr can and should act on it - and courts of law as well. If your boundary is no physical contact ever, i fully support you not being touched ever. But i can’t support your beliefs defining my boundaries. Please keep in mind that your experience is not universal. It is certainly not the norm for any woman among the thousands I have meet. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/132 "2016-06-27T18:02:15Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Please keep in mind that your experience is not universal. It is certainly not the norm for any woman among the thousands I have meet. Then way is it that you are the _only woman_ in this thread making these assertions? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/133 "2016-06-27T18:04:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > \*Where \*do you live? :dubious: > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Please keep in mind that your experience is not universal. It is certainly not the norm for any woman among the thousands I have meet. Possibly a refugee camp? Rape is certainly much more common in war zones. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/134 "2016-06-27T18:06:26Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Please keep in mind that your experience is not universal. It is certainly not the norm for any woman among the thousands I have meet. So you can remove yourself from having to interact with men, and more power to you. Just don’t suggest i can’t interact with men. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/135 "2016-06-27T19:00:48Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > When a man continues to try to touch a woman having been warned multiple times (or quite frankly more than once should be sufficient) not to touch a woman it is definitely harassment with any Human Resources Department I have ever worked with and in most courts of law it’s assault. It’s humiliating and a way of wearing down her resistance against further violence that is part of a the continuum of violence against women that should never be tolerated. Where do you live, if you don’t mind saying? I completely agree that if a man has been warned multiple times and continues to touch you in ways you object to, then it is harassment and legal/HR, etc. should help you. But that has never happened to me. And outside of dating-relationships-gone-sour, I don’t think it’s happened to my friends, either. I do know men who have accidentally shaken hands with a woman who didn’t want that. My husband did it once. The woman looked taken aback, but shook his hand. She didn’t actually say “please don’t do that” (or anything like it) but her facial expression was quite telling, and he was upset that he’d done that to her, and certainly never did it again. I really think most men I run into are like my husband, though, and would make a mental note “don’t do that” and not like the men who have harassed you and your friends. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/136 "2016-06-27T19:09:11Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > It’s also possible many of the women you know are 1.) being polite rather that it is out of genuine desire to be polite or because of experience with male hostility over anything that threatens male privilege is debatable or 2.) simply need a little conscious-raising to realize they don’t have to be victims. You could be right! The women of New York City may be too hesitant to question male privilege! Or stupid enough to need a little consciousness-raising to spare them from being victims of males! I’ll go right out and propose this to the first ten women I meet on the street. Would you mind following fifty feet behind me with bandages and iodine and a piece of raw beef for my eyes? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/137 "2016-06-27T19:48:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I’ve lived many places, currently stuck in Texas which unfortunately has been overrun by redneck culture. There was a time when Texas wasn’t overrun with redneck culture? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/138 "2016-06-27T19:55:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I do know men who have accidentally shaken hands with a woman who didn’t want that. My husband did it once. The woman looked taken aback, but shook his hand. She didn’t actually say “please don’t do that” (or anything like it) but her facial expression was quite telling, and he was upset that he’d done that to her, and certainly never did it again. I really think most men I run into are like my husband, though, and would make a mental note “don’t do that” and not like the men who have harassed you and your friends. In some cases old fashioned ‘gentlemanliness’, as much as it a holdover of the evil patriarchy and white male privilege etc (long live the revolution!) can come in handy. It says not to shake hands with a lady unless she offers her hand first. Nowadays it’s very common IME for women to extend their hand (the lady is likely to be the one thought odd not to in a ‘professional’ type business situation) so easy to forget that rule, along with general ‘Right Think’ dismissal of anything traditional, of course. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/139 "2016-06-27T20:42:18Z")
In this case, it was an Orthodox Jewish woman, and he was offering her congratulations on something. So it was his role to offer his hand, except that as an Orthodox Jew, she didn’t expect to touch a man she wasn’t related to. Really just a case of clashing cultural expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055/140 "2016-06-27T20:54:05Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > There was a time when Texas wasn’t overrun with redneck culture? When it was still Mexico? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-how-do-you-feel-when-you-catch-a-man-looking-at-you/758055.md?page=8)