# Ladies - If you really want children stop kidding yourselves & wasting time! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 11, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714 "2005-10-11T04:28:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/21 "2005-10-11T17:45:17Z")
I remember reading\* that getting married before 24 drastically increases your chance of getting a divorce, and every year you wait after that slightly decreases your chance. \*okay, I read it in a book called [Finding the Love of Your Life](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671892010/qid=1129052479/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1543379-7207804?v=glance&s=books) by the founder of E-Harmony, Dr Neil Clark Warren. My mother send it to me, and it was good for a few laughs. Don’t judge me. The stat was from an actual study, which I can’t find now because I threw that book in the garbage after I read it. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/22 "2005-10-11T17:54:28Z")
I found a cite. It’s 10 years old, but human nature hasn’t changed all that much in that time: [cite](http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats38.htm#fn%201) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/23 "2005-10-11T17:57:39Z")
> [@](#): > > 3: Settle earlier rather than later. I can’t tell you how many women I know who blew off good men in their late teens and early 20s who now regret doing so. Those who are not still single at 35 are now married to men generally considered to be of lower quality than the men they spurned before. Remember, your choices narrow as you get older, while men’s choices broaden. This is so true! I’ve I’d only settled for my ex-boyfriend, I could be married by now! He sure was high quality – who cares if he didn’t love me anymore? I should’ve continued to persue him relentlessly until he gave in and married me. I’m sure we would’ve been happy once we had kids. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/24 "2005-10-11T17:58:53Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I’d buy this if the guy weren’t so insulting to women who choose to focus on their careers. The comment about Miers not representing the ideal American woman, is an example. Interesting thought:– **Men–If you really want children stop kidding yourselves & wasting time!** 1: Don’t engage in casual dating relationships after 18. They’re fun, and they’ll also prevent you from pursuing more fruitful relationships. 2: Make those potential long-term relationships your top priority. If you put college or your job first, there’s a reasonable chance that a job is all you’ll have at 40 … and 60. Consider the president’s new Supreme Court nominee. The unmarried and childless Mr. Creepy McCrypto is on the verge of becoming one of the most powerful professional man in the country – does he really represent the ideal American wan? 3: Settle earlier rather than later. I can’t tell you how many men I know who blew off good women in their late teens and early 20s who now regret doing so. Those who are not still single at 35 are now married to women generally considered to be of lower quality than the wpmen they spurned before. Remember, your choices narrow as you get older, while women’s choices broaden. 4: Let everyone know that marriage and children is your ultimate goal. Too many men, fearing the wrath of the Brotherhood, secretly wish for them while publicly and piously professing mascultine approved cant to the contrary. 5: Bait-and-switch doesn’t work. Unlike their male counterparts, women who say they don’t want to get married or have kids usually mean it. Play that game and she’ll be perfectly justified in dumping your dishonest posterior despite your time-investment in him. 6: Don’t hesitate to end relationships that aren’t leading toward marriage, or with women who are less than completely positive about the near-term prospect of children. If she hasn’t accepted your proposed in 18 months, she has no intention of doing so. Cut your losses. Most women know how to string men along and know they’ll have no problem replacing you when you finally call their bluff. Never confuse the feminine desire for conflict avoidance with malleability. 7: Shed your woman-hating friends, as well as those who buy seriously into the Equalitarian dogma. Misery loves company and miserable men like nothing better than to make everyone within a five-mile radius miserable, too. 8: Be brutal when assessing the women who are interested in you. Too many men make the mistake of looking only at a woman’s desirable traits and ignoring her weaknesses early on. But it’s not the first kiss that matters – it’s the happily-ever-after part. The way she treats others is the way she will eventually treat you. 9: If you want the odds of easily siring healthy children to be in your favor, set a goal of marrying by 25. You can always go back to school, you can’t go back in time. 10: Remember that love is a choice, an action and a commitment, it is not a feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/25 "2005-10-11T18:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > 8: **Be brutal** when assessing the men who are interested in you. Too many women make the mistake of looking only at a man’s desirable traits and ignoring his weaknesses early on. But it’s not the first kiss that matters – it’s the happily-ever-after part. The way he treats others is the way he will eventually treat you. Because, really, that’s what men want. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/26 "2005-10-11T18:22:30Z")
Sorry to hijack, but the google ad for “bulk discounts” and “free exchanges” on lingerie at the bottom of the page is too funny to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/27 "2005-10-11T18:24:38Z")
> [@](#): > > 6: Don’t hesitate to end relationships that aren’t leading toward marriage, or with men who are less than completely positive about the near-term prospect of children. If he hasn’t proposed in 18 months, he has no intention of doing so. Cut your losses. Most men know how to string women along and know they’ll have no problem replacing you when you finally call their bluff. Never confuse the masculine desire for conflict avoidance with malleability. What?! A year and a half as the upper limit? Plenty of great relationships involve people waiting a few years until they’re ready to get married. I hate that this person is encouraging people to rush into it. My husband proposed after 51 months of dating. We had talked about marriage for a long time but we had a lot to figure out. We’re very happy. I wish more couples my age (I’m 24, FWIW) had waited a little longer to pop the question and soar down the aisle. There are many exceptions to the rule, but a lot of the less-than-a-year proposals that I’ve seen involve two people who are more in love with the idea of marriage than with each other. I know quite a few mid-twenties divorcees. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/28 "2005-10-11T18:28:05Z")
> [@Millit the Frail](#): > > What?! A year and a half as the upper limit? Plenty of great relationships involve people waiting a few years until they’re ready to get married. I hate that this person is encouraging people to rush into it… There are many exceptions to the rule, but a lot of the less-than-a-year proposals that I’ve seen involve two people who are more in love with the idea of marriage than with each other. I know quite a few mid-twenties divorcees. I think so, too. I absolutely loathed being single and dating (though it wasn’t as bad once I was only dating Mr. Neville), but I’ve seen people in love with the idea of being married rather than the person they’re marrying. The inevitable divorce was not pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/29 "2005-10-11T18:31:34Z")
There actually is a good message buried in the heap of misogynistic bullshit this guy is shovelling. Women who want their own kids should know that they have a ticking clock; female fertility drops sharply at around 35, and the chance of having a seriously defective baby after that increases sharply. A lot of women don’t like to hear this, and feminists don’t like people to say this, but women do have to make choices. Most people can’t have it all; that was always a myth, and people are starting to realize that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/30 "2005-10-11T18:54:11Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Interesting thought:– **Men–If you really want children stop kidding yourselves & wasting time!** That’s very clever and all, but we don’t have a biological clock like women do. There are actual medical reasons why women need to think about having children earlier than men do. It’s not about some misogynistic ego trip. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/31 "2005-10-11T21:59:16Z")
Men’s fertility drops about as sharply as women’s does. Men, get started by your mid-20’s if you want to be fathers. And if I hear about biological clocks one more time… Somebody show me a medical diagram of a woman’s body complete with biological clock. That’s all I ask. If you can’t find one, that please come up with a more accurate way to say what you mean. I think what you mean to say is that women become infertile in their fifties and their likelihood of having children with birth defects increases as they age. What you DON’T mean to say is that there is an organ hidden in the nether regions of a woman’s body which ticks away until it one day GOES OFF and then she suddenly must conceive instantly with the first available man or she will never be able to have children!!! Gaahhh. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/32 "2005-10-11T22:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > What you DON’T mean to say is that there is an organ hidden in the nether regions of a woman’s body which ticks away until it one day GOES OFF and then she suddenly must conceive instantly with the first available man or she will never be able to have children!!! So there’s no such thing as menopause? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/33 "2005-10-11T23:04:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That’s very clever and all, but we don’t have a biological clock like women do. There are actual medical reasons why women need to think about having children earlier than men do. It’s not about some misogynistic ego trip. In the interests of fighting ignorance . . . Oh yes you do! [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/07/earlyshow/contributors/emilysenay/main552846.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/07/earlyshow/contributors/emilysenay/main552846.shtml) > [@](#): > > The report found men over 40 years of age were twice as likely to have a child with down syndrome than those less then 20 years old. > > It was always thought in the past that a woman’s age was the sole determining factor in birth defects, such as Down syndrome, says Dr. Senay. But the new report adds to the growing body of evidence that late fatherhood is a factor when it comes to the health of a baby. > > Previous studies have shown a link between paternal age and schizophrenia; and paternal age and a birth defect known as Achondroplasia. More: > **[WebMD - Better information. Better health.](https://www.webmd.com?src=Inktomi&condition=Infertility_Reproduction)** > > The leading source for trustworthy and timely health and medical news and information. Providing credible health information, supportive community, and educational services by blending award-winning expertise in content, community services, expert... ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/34 "2005-10-11T23:25:05Z")
This is a bunch of misogynistic crap, but women do have a physical restriction when it comes to childbirth. A man can father children his whole life. Women simply can’t. I didn’t start dating until I was in college. I’m not going to be married until I’m 27 and I’m never having kids. I guess I fail at “woman”. I love the “you can always go back to school” comment. If you’ve got kids and you work full time… it’s going to be damned hard to “go back”, while if you’re 18 and have relatively little responsibility, just finish. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/35 "2005-10-11T23:47:28Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > There actually is a good message buried in the heap of misogynistic bullshit this guy is shovelling. Women who want their own kids should know that they have a ticking clock; female fertility drops sharply at around 35, and the chance of having a seriously defective baby after that increases sharply. A lot of women don’t like to hear this, and feminists don’t like people to say this, but women do have to make choices. Most people can’t have it all; that was always a myth, and people are starting to realize that. Female here, and I agree with **featherlou**. It goes both ways: I settled down with a man who has the same priorities as I do. We both want children. I am a homemaker who is very happy being in this position, and I work hard to keep the household running while my husband makes the big bucks. I may get a job for a while before we have our first child, but when the first baby comes, I’ll be home. I like my life this way; this is what I want and I found a man who supports that. Yet I am hounded a lot by feminists who insist I must not be happy, or that I’m throwing my life away, or that I must not be a feminist, as if that is supposed to be some kind of insult. There’s misogynistic crap going on in the article, yes, but I get an equal amount of crap from (certain types of) feminists, too. Just like certain types of Christians, they’re not all bad, but the ones who are, hoo boy. I made my choice. I am neither a feminist nor a Christian. I’m just me, happy little me. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/36 "2005-10-12T01:59:24Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > Men’s fertility drops about as sharply as women’s does. Men, get started by your mid-20’s if you want to be fathers. > > And if I hear about biological clocks one more time… > > Somebody show me a medical diagram of a woman’s body complete with biological clock. That’s all I ask. If you can’t find one, that please come up with a more accurate way to say what you mean. I think what you mean to say is that women become infertile in their fifties and their likelihood of having children with birth defects increases as they age. What you DON’T mean to say is that there is an organ hidden in the nether regions of a woman’s body which ticks away until it one day GOES OFF and then she suddenly must conceive instantly with the first available man or she will never be able to have children!!! > > Gaahhh. As a practical matter the term “biological clock” is not a bad metaphor. _Some_ women can have kids well into their 40’s and a very, very few into their early 50’s. For the majority of women declining fertility falls along a bell curve with some losing fertility earlier and some later. Having said this, for most women fertility tends to frop off a cliff between ages 35 and 40. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/37 "2005-10-12T05:00:09Z")
I liked this bit: > [@](#): > > Consider the words of Melissa Cole Essig, who writes in Newsweek of her difficulty in getting pregnant at 39: > > ``` > As certain as I am that now is the right time for me to have my children, it's hard not to blame myself for how difficult it's turning out to be. > > ``` > > Nature, it seems, would disagree. And a woman foolish enough to wait more than two decades before attempting to have children has no one to blame but herself. So a woman is foolish if she doesn’t start trying to have children at 18! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/38 "2005-10-12T05:42:20Z")
> [@zagloba](#): > > ,snip\> > So a woman is foolish if she doesn’t start trying to have children at 18! Well, if all we were talking about was biology, then yes, having kids is a young woman’s game. I’m trying to think of a better metaphor than ticking clock - I’ve got it! Ovaries come with expiration dates. Is that better? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/39 "2005-10-12T06:00:45Z")
The assumption noone seems to be questioning is that a husband is required (or even desired) as a prerequisite to having a baby. With a good career, you can stash some serious cash for that IVF when you’re in your 30’s. Amniocentesis makes it much less of a crapshoot after 35, too. Not that I want one, cause I don’t. Never did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714/40 "2005-10-12T06:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Settle earlier rather than later. I can’t tell you how many women I know who blew off good men in their late teens and early 20s who now regret doing so. Those who are not still single at 35 are now married to **men generally considered to be of lower quality** than the men they spurned before. Remember, your choices narrow as you get older, while men’s choices broaden. I read that, then I saw this: [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/voxday.jpg](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/voxday.jpg) I don’t know much about anything, as seen by my inability to render “Top 10 Hot HOT **HOT** (but married) now now now” lists, but I’m willing to say this guy has a small penis. Just because. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-if-you-really-want-children-stop-kidding-yourselves-wasting-time/325714.md?page=3)