# Ladies: Manly men, or metrosexual? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 13, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929 "2004-10-13T01:51:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/81 "2004-10-14T10:22:18Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Oh boy. Give me a dime for all the times I’ve heard of a woman who married a good looking guy with a highly undesirable character because she figured she could change him – and failed miserable, and I’ll buy me a yacht and cruise the Mediterranean for a few years. Hey I never said changed him! If I Icould have changed him he would still be alive. I just made him wash more often. We still had some very good unstinky years together. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/82 "2004-10-14T14:50:08Z")
I don’t think of James Bond as “metrosexual,” even if the character was always written (in the books) as a sybarite. (I think he was more narcisssistic in the movies.) A good example of a metrosexual would be the character Nigel Havers played in “Manchild,” a British TV comedy that showed on BBC America: a fiftysomething divorced man who’s always looking to make his next score. He’s always after the ladies, but he spends a lot of time and effort on his clothes and general appearance. I think we used to just call his kind a “peacock,” right? ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/83 "2004-10-14T16:05:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **RickJay** _ > I’ve always found it amusing all the women on the SDMB who claim to be attracted to nerds and geeks. Hundreds of them. And yet the nerds and geeks all have so much trouble getting women. I married one. A geek of a very specific type, though. For most of my life, my male friends and boyfriends have all been video game obsessed, d&d playing, Tolkien-loving guys with swords. Most of them do martial arts, and can easily revamp their computers on their own. That is (I think, through evidence) my favourite type. I am not attracted to the very far geek/nerd end of the spectrum who are extremely overweight, never leave their bedrooms, don’t shower, and speak of everything in terms of role-playing statistics. I’ve met a fair number of them (and a couple who epitomised that personal stereotype) and I really don’t like them. Some social skills required, please. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/84 "2004-10-14T17:35:55Z")
James Bond a metrosexual? Mr. Bond does not squeal with delight at the prospect of going to the mall to look at shoes. Granted that isn’t the only criteria but we have a starting point. Five different actors have played 007 in the movies not counting the spoofs so you really need to be more specific. [ul][li]George Lazenby - He’s a male model. I won’t even argue in his defense.[/li][li]Roger Moore - I’ll defend him but not enthusiastically. I found his portrayl to be, well, prissy. The flared pant legs, huge lapels and '70s coif made my skin crawl.[/li][li]Pierce Brosnan - An excellent combination of testosterone and sophistication. It’s manly to look good in a tux if it doesn’t look like it was an effort to do so. [/li][li]Timothy Dalton - His attitude kept him from being a metrosexual. I thought he was a very underrated Bond but it was bad timing.[/li]Sean Connery - I must kill you now. Nothing personal but we’re talking about Mr. Scotland. Yeah, I know, _The Avengers_ had the “suck” knob turned to eleven but he defined the sophisticated manly man for an entire generation in _Goldfinger_.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/85 "2004-10-14T21:01:28Z")
I wasn’t saying Bond (to keep things simple, let’s say Brosnan) was a _typical_ metrosexual. Look, if you take the manly-man scale and put Indiana Jones at one end, as the very best possible, on the other end you’ll have to put Homer Simpson. Likewise, on the metrosexual scale, you’ll put every example you guys brought up on one end and Bond - or Cary Grant - on the other. Does Bond squeal with delight at buying shoes? No, because he has dignity - a quality both metrosexuals and manly-men can have. The former sans dignity is a prissy wimp; the latter is a slob. I’m sure, howver, that he doesn’t buy shoes off the rack. He probably has a dedicated Italian cobbler who brings over samples of leather so that he can design the most elagent footwear possible; I’m also sure bond spends at least six hours a week on buying and fitting clothing. That’s _classic_ metrosexual behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/86 "2004-10-14T22:10:09Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > And also there are a great many nerds and geeks who are only interested in supermodel types and don’t even notice women who aren’t physically perfect or nearly so, so they have trouble meeting _those_ women. Yeah, word up to that. Too many nerds grew up admiring all those scantily clad chicks in Dungeons and Dragons manuals – how can we compete with that? I love nerdy guys, but every single one I’ve known had unrealistic physical expectations of women. Not that I’m a huge prize or anything – they would put down women much more attractive than me. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/87 "2004-10-14T22:34:04Z")
[QUOTE=Scribble] Who would want some grunting, reeking, beer-filled hulk of testosterone poisoning? [QUOTE] I see you haven’t met my lovely wife. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/88 "2004-10-14T23:21:00Z")
Let me elaborate, here: Manly men play poker; Bond plays Baccarat. Manly men drink beer or whiskey; Bond drinks wine, sherry or cocktails. Manly men drive pickup trucks; Bond drives itty-bitty little European sports cars. Manly men kill people with .45 magnum revolvers; Bond kills people with a Walther PPK .32, a metrosexual firearm if there ever was one. I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/89 "2004-10-14T23:35:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Let me elaborate, here: > > Manly men play poker; Bond plays Baccarat. > > Manly men drink beer or whiskey; Bond drinks wine, sherry or cocktails. > > Manly men drive pickup trucks; Bond drives itty-bitty little European sports cars. > > Manly men kill people with .45 magnum revolvers; Bond kills people with a Walther PPK .32, a metrosexual firearm if there ever was one. > > I rest my case. -Let’s see… I used to play poker quite a bit, although I prefer pool. -I like some beer but after a few I’m ready for some tequila and a good cigar. (Although I was drinkin whiskey last weekend and I’ve got a half gallon in the fridge.) -I drive a restored '65 Ford pickup. -I do have a .45 long colt revolver and have actually had to use it before. -heh… 😃 **Alessan** I guess you’ve got a little insight huh? and I do live back in the woods but I don’t chew beechnut. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/90 "2004-10-14T23:52:50Z")
**Alessan** apparently has never seen a Bond movie. He can play any game, and win. He drinks martinis. He drives tanks, flies helicopters, and rides motorcycles. I can’t even list the number of weapons he’s proven to be expert at killing with, but as often as not, he kills just as handily with his bare hands. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/91 "2004-10-15T00:11:40Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Pssst… **Miller**? Um, the Brawny guy? _Total_ homo. Well, duh. Just look at that moustache! But he’s still a _manly_ 'mo. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/92 "2004-10-15T00:19:01Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > **Alessan** apparently has never seen a Bond movie. > > He can play any game, and win. > He drinks martinis. > He drives tanks, flies helicopters, and rides motorcycles. > I can’t even list the number of weapons he’s proven to be expert at killing with, but as often as not, he kills just as handily with his bare hands. It’s not what he _can_ do, it’s what he prefers to do. Can you imagine Bond between missions hanging around his flat in sweat pants, chugging beers and watching ESPN? I can’t. Look, I’m not saying Jimmy B. isn’t tough. Nobody can argue the fact that he’s one of the top ten toughest motherfuckers in the world. I’m just saying that Bond is tough _and_ metrosexual, that one doesn’t preclude the other. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/93 "2004-10-15T00:29:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Since when is hair gel a sign of sophistication? …Where do you think the term “greaser” comes from? The '50s? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/94 "2004-10-15T01:45:40Z")
Well, if we wish to define “metrosexual” as someone who is essentially Carson Kressley [or, for dopers w/o US cable TV: insert here the name of any popular flamboyantly gay fashionista] only with a preference for doing women, I’ll go along of it leads faster to the extinction of this loathsome word. You don’t suffix with “-sexual” a behavioral pattern _NOT_ dependent on a person’s sexuality. My problem with “metrosexual” is that it somehow tends to imply that stylishness, refinement and sophistication ARE sexuality-related. Of course, **a35362** is correct that a _more accurate_ term for a James Bond Type is a _sybarite_ – one who appreciates and seeks out The Finer Things and insists on Only the Best in everything from his personal grooming to his flat’s furnishings. But the thing is that, like **Alessan** , points out, the current mass-media standards for calling someone a “metrosexual” _would_ seem to range as far as to include this fictional character, solely on the superficial appearance of his grooming, dress and leisure habits (and for those so inclined, his choice of sidearm). So Bond ends up being a Manly Metrosexual. I suspect all the “Manly Man” backlash started way back in '81 with _Real Men Don’t Eat Quiche_ and got to its climax with _The Man Show_ 20 years later, but sometimes I think people miss that these are _satires_. Not actual manifestos. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/95 "2004-10-15T06:53:40Z")
You are asking if I prefer snake venom or arsenic? What I really like is a tweedy man who tells funny stories and likes jazz. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/96 "2004-10-15T10:15:56Z")
I was a mechanic and survival expert in the Air Force, can strip and rebuild a computer including custom writing small software applications, chipped my own car for better performance, play airsoft war games from time to time (usually once a month), ski, backpack, run in adventure races and triathlons, mountain bike, and wear grubby clothes on the weekend (and sometimes during the week unless I am meeting a customer). I am big and hairy, stink from time to time (but seldom for very long), have no problem (or at least didn’t before I moved to England) in camping out and elk hunting for a week with no facilities nearby, like to fish, work out on a regular basis, drink beer and eat ice cream, and like steak and potatoes. I also get my back, crack and sack waxed on a regular basis, shave at least every other day (although the lil’ lady likes a bit of stubble), spend over $50 on each haircut, have designer clothes and suits in my wardrobe, and drive a fancy european sportscar. I love sushi and fancy restaraunts, and often like to go shopping with my girlfriend for both clothes and home furnishings. Where do I fit in on the spectrum between metrosexual and manly man? Just curious, really… ---
**Author:** ![Mariemarie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Mariemarie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mariemarie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/97 "2004-10-15T11:47:43Z")
If I can’t have my super-genius ubergeek, I’ll take a sweaty, smelly, scratchy, stubbled, muscle-bound hunk-a hunk-a burning love. Yeah, baby! ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/98 "2004-10-15T12:31:21Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Yeah, word up to that. Too many nerds grew up admiring all those scantily clad chicks in Dungeons and Dragons manuals – how can we compete with that? > > I love nerdy guys, but every single one I’ve known had unrealistic physical expectations of women. Not that I’m a huge prize or anything – they would put down women much more attractive than me. Hmm… I’m not certain this is true. Certainly the fantasy-art stuff has skewed our perceptions, but if you can fill out a chain-mail bikini, I think you’re still going to do allright. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/99 "2004-10-15T14:39:04Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Hmm… I’m not certain this is true. Certainly the fantasy-art stuff has skewed our perceptions, but if you can fill out a chain-mail bikini, I think you’re still going to do allright. 😃 Perfect example right there. There are women everywhere with the Geek Preference, yet it’s so hard to get your hands on Leia’s gold bikini in anything over a size six. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929/100 "2004-10-15T14:43:03Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > Perfect example right there. There are women everywhere with the Geek Preference, yet it’s so hard to get your hands on Leia’s gold bikini in anything over a size six. 🙂 Hmmm. A little quick chain-link extension should take care of most of the problem. Or you could build-your-own. It’s the lascivious-yet-geeky thought that counts, is what I’m trying to say. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-manly-men-or-metrosexual/268929.md?page=6)