# Ladies, you are just too stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260 "2017-01-26T21:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/21 "2017-01-27T00:58:48Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > A “human being” who is biologically dependent upon someone else’s body? With the possible exception of a conjoined twin, that’s not a human being, it’s a parasite. There’s a difference between a _potential_ person and an _actual_ person. Two responses: an infant, born minutes ago, will surely die unless someone’s body does something for that infant. Humans are not born ready to care for themselves. And we already know that society is perfectly willing to impose that duty on the mother: a woman cannot legally give birth and then walk away from the infant without ensuring that someone cares for him or her. Secondly, what about cojoined twins? Are they parasites? May we legally kill one? > [@](#): > > The real murderers are the people who cut off life-saving medical services from women. Ok. Also, the real murderers are people who stab other people in the liver, and also they are people who poison other people, and also they are people who sell heroin to other people. Are we making lists of various real murder categories? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/22 "2017-01-27T01:01:08Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > No, it is about **Planned Parenthood** , which some are trying to kneecap. One of the tactics is spreading distortions and bullshit about the founder, who was opposed to abortion because it was illegal and dangerous. The point is, opposition to PP is essentially the same as telling women that they are too stupid to be in control of their reproduction. Does it not depend on the reason for the opposition? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/23 "2017-01-27T01:06:07Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Planned Parenthood is not about abortion. They do not perform or facilitate abortions. Factually [incorrect (PDF page 2):](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood_Services.pdf) > [@](#): > > Abortion Services > Abortion Procedures 327,166 #alternativefacts of the Left? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/24 "2017-01-27T01:13:01Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Nope. That’s the strawman right there. An awful lot of pro-choice people believe that the unborn child is a human being. That belief isn’t the borderline between pro-choice and anti-choice. The borderline is whether you believe the state should be able to use one human being’s body for another’s benefit, against the first person’s will. Yes, that’s a fair point. But the answer is yes, and it does not arise from animus against XX chromosome pairs. It’s simply a consequence of biology. The man sprays semen and leaves; the woman carries the child from conception to birth. So if the child is indeed a human, then, yes, the state should be able to use one human being’s body for another’s benefit, against the first person’s will . . . but as a result of a special circumstance, not as a general case. > [@](#): > > I’ve never heard any opponent of abortion argue in favour of forced blood donation or forced organ donation, even though the act of refusing those undoubtedly causes the death of other human beings. But those practices would apply to men as well as to women - and men have the right to be in charge of their own bodies. But women…well, like the OP says, we just can’t be making our own decisions about our own bodies. Interestingly, no one seems to be calling for forced blood and organ donation from women as a general practice. If the animus against woman’s decisional acumen is so strong, where is the call for forced kidney donations from women? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/25 "2017-01-27T01:15:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Two responses: an infant, born minutes ago, will surely die unless someone’s body does something for that infant. Humans are not born ready to care for themselves. And we already know that society is perfectly willing to impose that duty on the mother: a woman cannot legally give birth and then walk away from the infant without ensuring that someone cares for him or her. Okay. Relevance to abortion? > [@](#): > > Secondly, what about cojoined twins? Are they parasites? May we legally kill one? Actually… yes, and it has been done. Certain conditions apply, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/26 "2017-01-27T01:35:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay. Relevance to abortion? The relevance was as a reply to post #20. > [@](#): > > Actually… yes, and it has been done. Certain conditions apply, of course. OK. Well, I am arguing that equally stringent conditions should apply here. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/27 "2017-01-27T01:38:29Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What other reason could there be but that women are just too stupid to make even basic contraceptive choices? There can be no other salient argument against allowing women to have control over their bodies. > > Perhaps someone can explain to me how denying women free access to reproductive health services and contraception is not calling them stupid? With respect to these discussions, as a woman, I’ve never felt that I was being called stupid. Immoral is more like it. And, like you, I believe the controversy centers on control of reproduction, and the contraceptive issue is just as much a part of it as abortion, even if every PP thread devolves into questioning where life begins. Religion and contraception do not mix. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/28 "2017-01-27T01:46:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The relevance was as a reply to post #20. Ah. Well, I see the key is the definition of “biologically dependent”. > [@](#): > > OK. Well, I am arguing that equally stringent conditions should apply here. Very well; in the case that I was thinking of, the medical decision to proceed was made by the twins’ parents. If we are to seek out analogisms, letting the decision be made by the to-be-aborted fetus’ parents also seems fair, though clearly one parent has a significantly greater ongoing involvement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/29 "2017-01-27T01:55:33Z")
Everyone has or should have the right to evict anyone inside their bodies that they don’t want inside them, even if they provided earlier consent for them to come inside. It’s possible that this means some women will make bad choices – but I think the vast majority will make the best choice for them, and I’d rather err on the side of some women making poor choices about abortion than take away their right to completely control access and use of their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/30 "2017-01-27T02:06:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Ridiculous. What choice does a viable fetus/baby have? The woman made a series of choices up to becoming pregnant. Choices have consequences. I am unaware of anywhere in the US where a woman can legally get an abortion after fetus viability _unless_ there are extreme extenuating circumstances (e.g. threatens the life of the mother or extreme deformity such that the baby would not live long after birth). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/31 "2017-01-27T02:19:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The woman made a series of choices up to becoming pregnant. Choices have consequences. What if the woman is raped and becomes pregnant? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/32 "2017-01-27T02:22:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If this is about abortion, then the OP is a strawman. > > Opponents of abortion argue that abortion is murder, because the unborn child being aborted is a human being and worthy of being treated as such. > > The argument is not that universally women lack some judgement that men universally possess. It’s that the act causes the death of a human being. Ah so the reson that more woman than men are pro choice is that women hate babies more than men. No wonder they shouldn’t be allowed control of all of those complicated genitalia. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/33 "2017-01-27T02:30:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Everyone has or should have the right to evict anyone inside their bodies that they don’t want inside them, even if they provided earlier consent for them to come inside. What the hell kind of nonsense is that? The child didn’t crawl up inside the mother and take up residence, and it most certainly wasn’t there by invitation! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: It was _created_ _within_ the woman as a direct result of actions taken by the her and it never existed anywhere else. And in my opinion, since it didn’t ask or have any say whatsoever in its creation and is therefore a totally innocent party, its right to life (and exclusion from the horrors of abortion - why is it that those most opposed to the torture of terrorists are also the most vocal cheerleaders for the horrid rending apart of unborn babies?) by all rights should supersede that of the woman who created it by her own actions. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/34 "2017-01-27T02:37:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It was _created_ _within_ the woman as a direct result of actions taken by the her and it never existed anywhere else. > > \ > > …why is it that those most opposed to the torture of terrorists are also the most vocal cheerleaders for the horrid rending apart of unborn babies?) by all rights should supersede that of the woman who created it by her own actions. What about rape? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/35 "2017-01-27T02:42:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What the hell kind of nonsense is that? The child didn’t crawl up inside the mother and take up residence, and it most certainly wasn’t there by invitation! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: It was _created_ _within_ the woman as a direct result of actions taken by the her and it never existed anywhere else. And in my opinion, since it didn’t ask or have any say whatsoever in its creation and is therefore a totally innocent party, its right to life (and exclusion from the horrors of abortion - why is it that those most opposed to the torture of terrorists are also the most vocal cheerleaders for the horrid rending apart of unborn babies?) by all rights should supersede that of the woman who created it by her own actions. In my opinion, it’s entirely up to the woman. It’s her body – she gets to choose, at any time, and for any reason, who and what gets to stay inside her body. If you wake up with a little person inside you, it’s up to you if it gets to stay. Doesn’t matter how it got there. You get to choose. And so do women. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/36 "2017-01-27T02:43:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Two responses: an infant, born minutes ago, will surely die unless someone’s body does something for that infant. Humans are not born ready to care for themselves. And we already know that society is perfectly willing to impose that duty on the mother: a woman cannot legally give birth and then walk away from the infant without ensuring that someone cares for him or her. [Yes, she can, in all 50 states.](https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/statutes/safehaven/) If you’d like me to send you the products of my abortion to care for, I’m more than willing. Much good may it do either of you. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/37 "2017-01-27T02:47:14Z")
I saw nothing in the OP about abortion. The push to defund PPH is nonsensical. Looking at the pdf provided by **Bricker** you can see the majority of their services are related to STD testing and birth control. By millions. Most PPH clinics do not perform abortions, they only refer. It’s less than three percent of what they do. 97% of their services don’t count for shit though, because God forbid they suggest someone have an abortion. So why shouldn’t they receive funding for those services? Why not just say “okay here’s your funding but you can’t spend it on abortion because we are against that (for whatever reason)”. Oh it’s because we ALREADY do that. Yep, they think we don’t deserve affordable reproductive care. If we’d just keep our legs closed we wouldn’t have these problems. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/38 "2017-01-27T02:53:08Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Ah so the reson that more woman than men are pro choice is that women hate babies more than men. No wonder they shouldn’t be allowed control of all of those complicated genitalia. I’m beginning to develop Bricker’s Law: _In SDMB debate, any post that begins, “So what you’re saying is…” (or similar words) is virtually certain to mischaracterize the argument to which it is responding._ Thank you for the data point. The answer to your post is: no, that’s not the reason. I imagine more women are opposed to limits on abortion than are men because their self-interest is implicated and because they are thus more disposed to accept the claim that the fetus is merely tissue, not a human being. But plenty of women are pro-life; the March for Life is tomorrow and you have only to watch the marchers to see that this is true. There are ten speakers scheduled for the event and four are women. And of course self-interest aside, undoubtedly many women simply believe in the arguments outlined above: that it’s morally unacceptable to force a person to invade the body of another. As do many men. In other words, people of good faith can reach conclusions without animus towards women, or without preferential bias towards women. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/39 "2017-01-27T02:55:46Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > [Yes, she can, in all 50 states.](https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/statutes/safehaven/) > > If you’d like me to send you the products of my abortion to care for, I’m more than willing. Much good may it do either of you. No, she cannot. As I clearly said: “…a woman cannot legally give birth and then walk away from the infant **without ensuring that someone cares for him or her**.” The purpose of the Safe Haven programs to which you advert is precisely to ensure that a woman can walk away but still ensure that someone will care for the infant. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260/40 "2017-01-27T03:00:33Z")
And once more, the push to prevent women from _choosing_ abortion is exactly the same push that will someday prevent them from _refusing_ abortion. It’s all the same antichoice agenda, and it’s always by the same people, who are never, except on this narrow issue, pro-life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-you-are-just-too-stupid/778260.md?page=3)