# Ladies. Your man wants to go to a Bachelor Party... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878 "2005-06-04T14:12:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/41 "2005-06-05T21:11:03Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > Everything I’ve heard/seen points to the fact that if a guy’s going to cheat on you with a stripper, he would have cheated on you anyway. That’s right! The problem is that women trust their men without evidence, as demonstrated by: > [@](#): > > And of course “nice” guys cheat – I don’t believe in outward signs when it comes to that, I just believe in trusting my partner. Right, you’re just going to trust him no matter what. Stand by your man. The willfully naive female psyche at work. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying that men are angels, and I’m not even saying that a strip club might not make a man more likely to cheat (if he’s inclined that way to begin with). But the OP asked for individual opinions on letting our men go to strip clubs, and most of us trust our SOs (or, as in my case, wouldn’t have an SO that we didn’t feel we could trust). You “feel” you can trust him. And you’ll be shocked, shoked! if he ever does, right? 'Cause he’s just _not_ that kind of guy. Let me put it this way: Trust ought to be granted by the observation of behaviors over a period of time. And going to see a stripper is the _very kind of behavior_ that ought to give you pause about your man’s level of fidelity. > [@](#): > > For **Aeschines** to come in here and paint us with the broad brush of naïveté – all because he has radically different standards of “cheating” than the rest of us do – is just ridiculous, IMHO. Call it “tough love.” Women say that men are sex-crazed pigs overly concerned with physical appearance–and they’re right! Men say that women are gold diggers always looking for the best deal–and they’re right! One other psychological flaw of women is that they are intractably trusting in their men–then flip to surprised and offended rage and disgust when the men contradict that ideal. > [@](#): > > But I _will_ add that I think you went a little overboard when you compared men in strip clubs to drunks at wine tastings… And the idea that women would accept that behavior, even wink at it, just blows my mind. Either open it up or shut it down, I say. Half-assed standards lead to disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/42 "2005-06-05T21:28:46Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > As the standard-bearing “Polyamory and Open Marriage Chick” of the Straight Dope, may I hereby request that \*\*Aeschines \*\*NOT be on my side? Perhaps we are in favor of polyamory for different reasons and have different ideals. > [@](#): > > Jumpin’ Jesus on a Pogo Stick, **Aeschines** , where did you get this horrible notion that men are oversexed dogs who need to be socially neutered by their wives for their own safety? One reason is that I myself am an oversexed dog who neuters himself for his own safety. And most men with whom I can discuss the matter openly are the same. I will also refer you to the stats I posted earlier. > [@](#): > > Sex is a continuum of behavior, you yourself said it. Men are not slobbering animals who cannot be trusted to eat one cheesburger but not the whole sack! Some men get enjoyment from looking at women yet don’t get enjoyment from betraying and hurting their wives! Why is that such a revolutionary concept for you? Any man who would find the stripper aesthetic pleasing is highly likely not to have trouble with other behaviors that women is this thread have said they would find “devastating.” Not all, but many. “Highly likely.” > [@](#): > > And, yeah, as QtM said, you being a controlling spouse is NOT going to stop a husband who wants to have sex with a prostitute. That’s not true. It will stop many men. It will also fail to stop many men. But applying control can help a woman in two complementary ways. One, it can stop a man who otherwise would do what she doesn’t want him to do. Two, it can catch a man once he has done so so that he can be disposed of. Many women in this thread are just saying, “I’m just gonna trust.” They’re not trying to prevent the behaviors, and they’re shutting their eyes to signs that behaviors have happened. A bad combo. > [@](#): > > And, as far as the OP goes, I obviously would have no problem with it. NOT because I’m in an open marriage, but because I trust my husband not to do anything stupid that could cause me pain. Here we go agian. Personally, I trust my wife not to do what I don’t want her to do sexually because she’s never shown the slightest sign of having done so or of desiring to do so. This makes life very easy for me in that area. Desiring to see a stripper _is_ such a sign that danger is there. Contrariwise, if you’ve never caught your man with any type of porn, if he’s never shown interest in having sex with other women, if you’ve never overheard him talking with the boys about hot chicks, if you’ve never observed the signs of an affiar, then you likely enjoy the same level of safety that I do. But if, in fact, he is going off to Vegas to watch strippers, then you enjoy a reduced margin of safety. Trust isn’t the default setting, unless you are naive and willing to be disappointed. Trust is based on a record of behavior; trust is earned. > [@](#): > > There are similar situations which could lead him to do something against our “rules,” but I trust him to be able to control himself. (For example, exes are off limits. Yet I don’t have a problem with him going to lunch or dinner with an ex - I trust him not to lose control of his penis and fall into her vagina, because somewhere underneath all those hormones is a mostly functioning brain.) Good for you if he has earned your trust. Please encourage other women to base such trust on a record of behavior. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/43 "2005-06-05T21:28:51Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Let me put it this way: Trust ought to be granted by the observation of behaviors over a period of time. And going to see a stripper is the _very kind of behavior_ that ought to give you pause about your man’s level of fidelity. Y’know, that particular statement deserves special emphasis. Heed these words, folks! BTW, I disagree that someone who cheats on you with a stripper would have cheated on you through other means anyway. As with many things in life, there are degrees of temptation. It’s possible for an otherwise faithful man to eventually cross the line, if he’s given a strong enough temptation. That’s why I’ve chosen to avoid situations like that altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/44 "2005-06-05T21:38:23Z")
If my husband actually **wanted** to go to a bachelor party where there would be strippers and other similar stuff, I’d wonder if he was on crack or had been taken over by aliens. Before he and I got married, he actually had to threaten one guy who was insisting he would physically kidnap my husband and drag him off to strip clubs for a bachelor party. We’ve been to a sex-gear model show at a club, and he enjoyed that, but we were there together and it was a dance club that was throwing this show as entertainment, which we didn’t know would be going on that night. He says he doesn’t find strip clubs interesting, and I believe him. Oh, and **Aeschines**? Maybe there’s a difference in behavior between the men with whom you can discuss this stuff openly, and those you can’t. The former seems to be a pretty self-selected sample, after all. I could say “all my friends who I can discuss the topic with say that they like porn” - well, if I don’t think I can discuss the topic openly with certain friends, isn’t it a likely conclusion that those friends wouldn’t like porn? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/45 "2005-06-05T21:43:32Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Desiring to see a stripper _is_ such a sign that danger is there. Contrariwise, if you’ve never caught your man with any type of porn, if he’s never shown interest in having sex with other women, if you’ve never overheard him talking with the boys about hot chicks, if you’ve never observed the signs of an affiar, then you likely enjoy the same level of safety that I do. What hooey. Come on, I think most guys are going to look at porn or talk about hot chicks at some point. It doesn’t bother me and, quite frankly, I would want the freedom to go see men stripping if I wanted to. A relationship isn’t about controlling the other person. If you don’t want the other person to fuck around, fine. Be honest and if the person betrays your honesty, don’t stay with them. It’s like any other breach of trust. Should I expect a man to hand over all his money to me, because I don’t want him to spend it all on toys and personal interests? Should I never take him to a bar if I’m not expecting him to get completely, slobbering drunk (even if I ask him not to)? Should I not bake a cake unless I think it’s OK if he grabs the whole thing and eats it with his hands? Ridiculous. Men are quite capable of making their own decisions and I don’t feel that it’s “naive” to avoid controlling behavior with your partner. Heck, I’d be happy to go along to the bachelor party if it was really an issue. I’d buy him a lap dance, too. I’d want him to be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/46 "2005-06-05T21:52:56Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > What hooey. Come on, I think most guys are going to look at porn or talk about hot chicks at some point. It doesn’t bother me and, quite frankly, I would want the freedom to go see men stripping if I wanted to. Oh yeah, I missed this. Both my husband and I look at porn. It’s arousing and interesting, and I know for certain that I don’t have any real desire to fuck other men, other than the occasional “oo, that’s niiiiice” fleeting thoughts when seeing a hot guy on the street. And then the thought fades and I go home and hop in bed with my husband. But hey, maybe **I’m** in denial about both myself and my husband, and we’re both just being used by the establishment which enforces monogamy as a tool to control the masses. :rolleyes: You said sex is a continuum, and I think plenty of people can engage in observation and talk without actually going out and screwing someone outside of a committed relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/47 "2005-06-05T22:21:17Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#): > > If my husband actually **wanted** to go to a bachelor party where there would be strippers and other similar stuff, I’d wonder if he was on crack or had been taken over by aliens. Before he and I got married, he actually had to threaten one guy who was insisting he would physically kidnap my husband and drag him off to strip clubs for a bachelor party. We’ve been to a sex-gear model show at a club, and he enjoyed that, but we were there together and it was a dance club that was throwing this show as entertainment, which we didn’t know would be going on that night. He says he doesn’t find strip clubs interesting, and I believe him. That’s all cool. You understand your husband’s sexuality and the probability that he will do things you don’t like. That sounds like my situation with my wife. All of which means that other women should trust but verify too. > [@](#): > > Oh, and **Aeschines**? Maybe there’s a difference in behavior between the men with whom you can discuss this stuff openly, and those you can’t. The former seems to be a pretty self-selected sample, after all. I could say “all my friends who I can discuss the topic with say that they like porn” - well, if I don’t think I can discuss the topic openly with certain friends, isn’t it a likely conclusion that those friends wouldn’t like porn? Yes, indeed the lack of desire to talk about it indicates either A) a complete lack of interest or B) a kind of shyness about the topic or C) both. Any of which is a positive sign that a man isn’t going to cheat. Not a guarantee, but a sign. There are definitely men who are not into porn and who would never cheat. Heck, there are men who are barely into sex to begin with. But there is also a large percentage of men who desire sex with multiple partners and who are held in check by personal ethics and various types of risk, as I have pointed out above. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/48 "2005-06-05T22:26:37Z")
I would not want my man to go to a strip club, I’m too paranoid he’d bring home some bug to share w/ me. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/49 "2005-06-05T22:42:34Z")
Montreal a Mecca of prostitution? Huh. I would be fine with my guy going to a strip club (although he doesn’t go and doesn’t like them, a side-effect of having dated a stripper), **except** I would not be okay with lap dances. Watching is one thing - touching is another. And Montreal **is** a Mecca of ‘full-contact’ lap dances. I’m faily certain that, if he were going to a bachelor party, we’d sit down and have a talk about it, and come to some sort of agreement which we would both stick to. Call me naive if you want, but I have a great relationship and I do trust him. I think all of you who assume that the average person would cheat given the chance need to have a good hard look at yourselves and your own relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/50 "2005-06-05T22:49:56Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > What hooey. Come on, I think most guys are going to look at porn or talk about hot chicks at some point. It doesn’t bother me and, quite frankly, I would want the freedom to go see men stripping if I wanted to. And a lot of men would like the “freedom” to bone other women. _That’s_ the point. You’re right that most guys are going to look at porn and talk about hot chicks. It’s also true that most men want to bone other women at some point. One thing that prevents them is the preventive measures that _you_ take. > [@](#): > > A relationship isn’t about controlling the other person. Oh, sweet heavens, this **so naive.** Any relationship has elements of control to it; sexual relationships are topped with great big globs of control sauce. If you every argue with your husband and one of you gets upset if such and such condition is not fulfilled, then you are operating in the area of rewards and punishments, and control is at work. If you have explicit or implicit rules, then control is at work. In the best relationships there is very little explicit control and self-control predominates. But there is still control. > [@](#): > > If you don’t want the other person to fuck around, fine. Be honest and if the person betrays your honesty, don’t stay with them. Sounds like a rule for control to me. But I’ve been emphasizing preventive measures in all my posts. Isn’t an ounce of prevention worth more than a ton of leaving him/divorce? > [@](#): > > It’s like any other breach of trust. Should I expect a man to hand over all his money to me, because I don’t want him to spend it all on toys and personal interests? No, but you do agree as to how to divide up your collective money, don’t you? That’s control. > [@](#): > > Should I never take him to a bar if I’m not expecting him to get completely, slobbering drunk (even if I ask him not to)? Such control may be necessary for alcoholics. > [@](#): > > Should I not bake a cake unless I think it’s OK if he grabs the whole thing and eats it with his hands? Ridiculous. Yes, these analogies _are_ ridiculous because watching a stripper is already a means of gaining sexual excitement/pleasure. It is not merely “looking without touching”; more importantly, to most men merely watching a stripper is not a satisfactory end in itself. It’s going to lead to at least masturbation back in the hotel room. > [@](#): > > Men are quite capable of making their own decisions and I don’t feel that it’s “naive” to avoid controlling behavior with your partner. You can’t avoid controlling behavior, since all relationships contain an element of control. Men are indeed capable of making their own decisions, and many of them will decide to do things that you do not want them to do. > [@](#): > > Heck, I’d be happy to go along to the bachelor party if it was really an issue. I’d buy him a lap dance, too. I’d want him to be happy. Why not buy him a whore if that would make him happy too? Because that would be _naughty_? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/51 "2005-06-05T23:09:30Z")
> [@LaurAnge](#): > > Call me naive if you want, but I have a great relationship and I do trust him. I think all of you who assume that the average person would cheat given the chance need to have a good hard look at yourselves and your own relationships. Introspection is indeed one of the reasons I describe men as I do in this thread. If I could bone a hottie (who digs me, that’s one of my personal conditions) risk-free, I’d do so any day I had at least 10 minutes for a quickie. But I’m risk averse, so I don’t do so. I also think it’s bad karma to lie, and I don’t want to lie to my wife. But would I consider it _wrong_ in the absolute to do the boning? Hell no. And I know that most hetero men feel as I do. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Violaceous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Miss\_Violaceous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Violaceous)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/52 "2005-06-05T23:41:44Z")
IMHO, the 60% figure does not represent the percentage of men who will cheat at a strip club, so the claim that “most” women can’t trust their men not to cheat at a strip club is not bolstered by the statistic. There are many reasons why people cheat. Some men are hornballs with no respect for their partners. They make up a part of that 60%, and they are the ones you would mostly see cheating at strip clubs. There are probably some men who are partial hornballs, who might cheat at a strip club if they had too much to drink. I wouldn’t have a relationship with either of those types. There are a lot of people (men and women) who would never cheat, except… except when there is an underlying emotional issue. Until that crops up, they really would never consider cheating. From what I’ve seen, those types are more likely to cheat with someone they know, rather than a stranger. The shoulder to cry on when your relationship is no longer fulfilling is the one who winds up comforting you in bed. When that happens it is shocking and devastating to the partner, because up until that time the other person genuinely was the type who would “never” cheat. I think the solution is to have a partner you can trust to watch porn and go to strip clubs, and to be vigilant about keeping your relationship healthy just in case. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/53 "2005-06-05T23:42:19Z")
**Aeschines** , you’re not entirely off base, it’s just a few of your premises don’t match up with mine. Since we’re starting with different assumptions, we won’t end up in the same place. But thank you for being clear with your assumptions and thought process - it helps to better understand your point of view, even if I don’t agree with it. > [@](#): > > It’s getting off on the sexuality of a woman who is not you. Looking at a naked woman and getting sexually excited is on the same continuum as screwing another woman. Obviously, the latter is much riskier, but to laugh the former off as just “boys having fun” or whatever is a mistake, I think. > > You are of course free to determine what is right and wrong in your own relationship, but, to my mind, the freedom to look at real-live naked women is already Polyamory Lite. And how many men (and women) fantasize about movie stars they’ve only seen fully clothed? Are you going to forbid your wife to go see movies? Might as well pass the burka, then, 'cause we’re on completely different planets! > [@](#): > > Any man who would find the stripper aesthetic pleasing is highly likely not to have trouble with other behaviors that women is this thread have said they would find “devastating.” Not all, but many. “Highly likely.” I don’t agree with that assumption. The OP wasn’t asking about men who frequent strip clubs on a regular vasis, she was asking about attending a bachelor party at which a stripper would be present. Myself, I wouldn’t have a problem with the sexuality of either, though I would be concerned with the financial drain if he wanted to see strippers a lot. But beyond that, it may very well be that my husband wants to go drink and have fun with his friends and celebrate an upcoming wedding - the stripper may be incidental to his desire to go. > [@](#): > > Women say that men are sex-crazed pigs overly concerned with physical appearance–and they’re right! Men say that women are gold diggers always looking for the best deal–and they’re right! I don’t agree with either of those assumptions. I know they’re not true for me, or I would have married the lawyer brother instead of the starving teacher brother. I know they’re not true about my husband, who still enjoys having sex with me after I’ve gained a significant amount of weight and become far less attractive during our marriage. We’re very honest that we’re not each other’s physical ideals _and never have been from the start._ Just sayin’. > [@](#): > > Such control may be necessary for alcoholics. Yes, because alcoholics have a disease which makes self-control impossible. HOWEVER. I would not attempt to control even an alcoholic without his prior consent. In the moment, he may tell be to fuck off and I may take measure to stop him, but only if at some time prior he asked me to intervene. If he hasn’t given me that power, then it’s his own process to deal with. That’s Free Will. Again, if my husband told me he was a sex addict who was spending too much money at strip clubs and needed my help to stay away, I’d do everything I could to help keep him under control. But that wasn’t what the OP stated. I think the thing here is that you’re assuming guilt where most of us assume innocence until proven otherwise. You’re assuming guilt on the part of the man (which may not be altogether foolish based only on statistics) and you assume a lack of observation and insight on the part of the wives. You talk about how I base my trust on my husband’s previous behavior, and you agree with that. I guess for me that’s just a given, and I can’t imagine why anyone would marry someone before observing them and judging them trustworthy. Maybe in an arranged marriage, things would be different. But not in my marriage or the marriage of people I know. Obviously, many people later find that their trust was misplaced - but for me that’s not the fault of the betrayed partner, it’s the responsibility of the betrayer. And I’ve never, ever, not once seen a relationship where the cheater would have been stopped cheating by his wife not letting him go to a party. There’s always other opportunities. The final thing I wonder about is how much your Japanese experiences are coloring your view of men and your determination of their general sexual trustworthiness. If stories are to be believed, Japanese attitudes around sex, prostitutes, strippers, etc. is very different from US attitudes. (Actually, you point this out yourself.) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/54 "2005-06-06T02:35:43Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > And how many men (and women) fantasize about movie stars they’ve only seen fully clothed? Are you going to forbid your wife to go see movies? Might as well pass the burka, then, 'cause we’re on completely different planets! Interesting you should mention the burka. Certain Islamic societies have a different method of handling male sexuality, in which the entire burden is placed on women. Hey, if men can’t see a woman, they can’t get horny and do bad things! It’s a different style of control, and it’s despicable in my view, but the purpose is pretty clear. Not letting men go to see a show whose sole purpose is to horn them up would seem to be a fairly reasonable rule. Since I have zero interest in such things, it never comes up in our household, but if my wife told me not to go, I would hardly consider myself overly restricted. > [@](#): > > The OP wasn’t asking about men who frequent strip clubs on a regular basis, she was asking about attending a bachelor party at which a stripper would be present. Myself, I wouldn’t have a problem with the sexuality of either, though I would be concerned with the financial drain if he wanted to see strippers a lot. > But beyond that, it may very well be that my husband wants to go drink and have fun with his friends and celebrate an upcoming wedding - the stripper may be incidental to his desire to go. I think there are two vibes at work re strippers, Old School and New School. Old School was, Hah hah, the lady jumped out of a cake, she showed us her buppies, what a gas. It was more of a joke, more like the shadow of titillation than titillation itself. When gals have the Chippendales over for a dance, I think this is often the vibe at work. Hah hah. The New School strippers are serious sexual business. It’s about getting horney. Now sometimes guys can approach the New School reality with an Old School attitude. Bachelor party, hah hah, had a drink and saw some naked chicks. Some more innocent guys will find it embarrassing. Guys like me will just not find it exciting and will be loathe to part with their money for it. So yeah, depending on the guy, you might very well have no worries. But that doesn’t mean that these New School strippers are something you can just laugh off like an dirty joke. Women need to understand what their men’s motives are for going to the bachelor party and take action accordingly. (BTW, why is it women [far more often than men, it seems] respond to a probabilistic statement with, “No, there are exceptions! It’s not always that way! That’s a generalization!” I _know_ it’s a generalization. I know that it’s just a _possibility._ But in life we need to assess risks and act accordingly. Not all is black and white.) > [@](#): > > I don’t agree with either of those assumptions. They’re not assumptions, they’re my assessment of tendencies. And I’m not trying to be original or creative; many men and women agree with me. Yes, there are many exceptions, including you, as you say. There are also epicycles within the cycles: for example, women try to get the best deal, but nevertheless still usually opt to remain within their own social stratum/group. Men try to go for the best-looking women, but still tend to shy away from women that are truly “out of their league.” Etc. > [@](#): > > I know they’re not true for me, or I would have married the lawyer brother instead of the starving teacher brother. I know they’re not true about my husband, who still enjoys having sex with me after I’ve gained a significant amount of weight and become far less attractive during our marriage. We’re very honest that we’re not each other’s physical ideals _and never have been from the start._ Just sayin’. And I believe you. > [@](#): > > Yes, because alcoholics have a disease which makes self-control impossible. HOWEVER. I would not attempt to control even an alcoholic without his prior consent. In the moment, he may tell be to fuck off and I may take measure to stop him, but only if at some time prior he asked me to intervene. If he hasn’t given me that power, then it’s his own process to deal with. That’s Free Will. You seem to take a wise approach, which I concur with. The trouble is that alcoholics will often agree to be controlled by another, even beg for it, and nevertheless still seek to evade that control to get their supply of alcohol. Men men say “Yes” to monogamy when the get married or even well before that point but neverthess play by a different set of rules once the the committment is in place. > [@](#): > > I think the thing here is that you’re assuming guilt where most of us assume innocence until proven otherwise. You’re assuming guilt on the part of the man (which may not be altogether foolish based only on statistics) and you assume a lack of observation and insight on the part of the wives. Well, to be nit-picky, I’m assuming certain _tendencies_ on the part of the men, which I _conclude_ that the women here are willfully ignoring based on what they’re saying. I really am trying to help out the people here who will listen. I’ve seen it again and again with women. It truly is a syndrome. Too trusting until something bad comes to the surface, after which they curse the man and can’t comprehend how they were ever betrayed. No prevention before, no self-reflection afterward. > [@](#): > > You talk about how I base my trust on my husband’s previous behavior, and you agree with that. I guess for me that’s just a given, and I can’t imagine why anyone would marry someone before observing them and judging them trustworthy. I can. The selection of men out there is shit. Women have a perverse incentive to turn a blind eye to a man’s faults so that they can live with what they’ve got. There is also Psychodrama Addiction Syndrome, to which either sex is susceptible. Some people would rather get into a shitty situation and bitch about it than prevent the situation from occurring in the first place. > [@](#): > > Obviously, many people later find that their trust was misplaced - but for me that’s not the fault of the betrayed partner, it’s the responsibility of the betrayer. If you think about it, I think you’ll see how wrong this is. No matter what happens in life, you are the captain of your ship. It’s _your duty_ to prevent that ship from running aground or taking on water. No, it’s not your fault, nor should you feel guilt, if someone imposes him/herself on your life and makes it worse, but if you let them on the ship and put trust in them that they did not deserve, then indeed you are to blame for the ill effects that _your trust_ brought about. > [@](#): > > And I’ve never, ever, not once seen a relationship where the cheater would have been stopped cheating by his wife not letting him go to a party. There’s always other opportunities. I disagree. As another poster stated, there are always those people who are on the line, who will act if tempted enough but not act otherwise. Further, attitudes aren’t built in a day; they are built over time. Letting a man go to one bachelor party might not lead him to temptation; but letting him go to several might do it. Remember that the women in this thread are in some cases actively encouraging such activity. > [@](#): > > The final thing I wonder about is how much your Japanese experiences are coloring your view of men and your determination of their general sexual trustworthiness. If stories are to be believed, Japanese attitudes around sex, prostitutes, strippers, etc. is very different from US attitudes. (Actually, you point this out yourself.) It is different in where it lies on the continuum, although I don’t think it is particularly different in character. Men there go to hookers and read porn, and both are extremely accessible, but they are not so different than what we have in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/55 "2005-06-06T04:45:07Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > There’s nothing simple about it. Human relations are always complex and unpredictable. That’s why control is necessary. To say that any woman who trusts her man to go to a strip club and not fuck a stripper is naive IS simplistic. As I said before, men are perfectly capable of being civilized creatures and having SELF control rather than having to be kept on a leash by their wives. > [@](#): > > Actually, you’re wrong. A man watching a stripper, assuming that she appeals to him on an individual level, is going to give him a hard-on and put him in the mood for sex. Now, he may think, “She’s hot, but she’s a slut and probably has cooties, so on a rational level I don’t want her,” or may just want her outright. But the desire has been brought to the surface. Is that not a dangerous thing? Oh, for pete’s sake. Again, a man can have a brain and a functioning moral system that isn’t incapacitated by getting an erection. He may think, “She’s hot, but it would be wrong for me to fuck her. I think I’ll go home and fuck my wife instead.” There are plenty of men who do that rather than your scenario. As someone else mentioned, we’re not talking here about men who hang out in strip clubs regularly, but rather an unusual occasion. I would have serious reservations if my husband wanted to go to the titty bar every weekend, because that would be frequently putting himself in a sexually charged situation, but when it’s something that happens every once in a blue moon, I don’t see that as automatic cause for alarm. ---
**Author:** ![La\_Llorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@La\_Llorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/La_Llorona)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/56 "2005-06-06T04:58:43Z")
I’ll commit an unforgiveable sin and admit right from the outset that I have not read through the entire thread yet… Keeping in mind that I am not possessed of a husband, I’m not honestly sure what I would do, but I certainly wouldn’t like my hypothetical husband to go to a strip club/bachelor party/something sexual with other women. However, I do think that in healthy relationships, Partner A shouldn’t go around _forbidding_ Partner B to do anything. I would hope that my husband would have no desire to go to a bachelor party/what-have-you, but I couldn’t outright forbid him to do so–no attaching the guy to me by the wrist with a baby leash!–and if I tried, he’d probably find a way of sneaking out and doing it anyway. So I guess the only thing to do is hope you have a good fellow on your hands. Make your wishes known, but at the same time, don’t be too controlling, as that tends to a) breed resentment and 2) encourage people to sneak around behind your back. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/57 "2005-06-06T12:29:25Z")
I went too one bachelor party that had a stripper. Completely skeeved me out. My bachelor party was beer and food on my brothers sail boat with my bro and a couple of close friends. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/58 "2005-06-06T12:32:53Z")
I’m sorry if this is seen as betraying the sisterhood, but Aeschines is 100% right. I trust my SO, but then he’s not one for porn or strippers. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/59 "2005-06-06T12:42:48Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > What? It’s funny! And it has Adrian Zmed! Dude, the pinnacle of his career was _Grease 2_: _Hey, Paulette, take a look ovah heah, I’m your king pin, Honey, and I’m gettin’ in geah . . ._ And as for the OP: Sure. Then maybe he won’t be tryin’ to peek at _my_ boobies so often. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yellowval](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/919ad9/32.png) [@yellowval](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowval)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878/60 "2005-06-06T13:10:25Z")
My husband has gone to several bachlor parties where the group went to a strip club. He never goes in, becuase he thinks it’s disgusting and knows exactly how I feel about it. It’s not that I have a problem trusting him while he’s there, it’s the idea of what’s taking place that I can’t stand. Surprisingly, he’s never been the only one who has chosen not to go in. Usually he and a couple of other guys go to a bar instead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladies-your-man-wants-to-go-to-a-bachelor-party/306878.md?page=4)