# LadMirer shouldn't have been banned **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058 "2004-11-29T00:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/21 "2004-11-29T02:23:56Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > … it’s fair to say that people are born pedophiles just like people are born homosexuals or heterosexuals. … Umm. No. Or can you point to some studies that would support this? Pedophilia is a fetish, a learned behavior. I’ll counter that many pedophiles, instead, are people who, themselves, were molested as children. That, itself, should be reason enough to outlaw pedophilia as a self-perpetuating evil. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/22 "2004-11-29T02:30:29Z")
He was doing all kinds of swearing in GD. The price is wrong bitch, goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/23 "2004-11-29T02:35:23Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#): > > Well, he was advocating illegal activity - basically the argument of the NAMBLA people, claiming that if it doesn’t involve violence, then it’s A-OK. Ignoring, of course, the issue of age of consent, among other things. Yes, but age of consent is not some timeless, immutable law of physics; it is a legal issue that is decided by examining society’s values and beliefs. In a legal sense, arguing for a change in age-of-consent laws is really no different from arguing for legalization of marijuana. Of course, there is a difference between arguing for a change in the law on one hand, and advocating illegal activity on the other. If i started a thread that attempted to organize a get-together of Dopers to smoke pot, it would probably be shut down pretty quickly. If i started a thread saying why i think current drug laws suck and should be repealed, i like to think that it would be allowed to stand. I didn’t see the thread in question, but it’s still not clear to me which side of this line **LadMirer** was on. If the latter, then i think banning him was wrong. Of course, this is all aside from the issue of a possible message board ambush, which is quite a different story. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/24 "2004-11-29T02:48:11Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > The comparison to homosexuality is not apt – homosexuality is not illegal. Aw jeez…is any good going to come of me wading into this? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/25 "2004-11-29T02:51:17Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > On the other hand, it’s fair to say that people are born pedophiles just like people are born homosexuals or heterosexuals. No it isn’t, you ignorant fuck. Pedophilia is a pathology created by early childhood trauma, usually sexual trauma. It is not an inborn orientation. Do not insult homosexuals with this fucking garbage. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/26 "2004-11-29T02:57:11Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#): > > Well, he was advocating illegal activity - basically the argument of the NAMBLA people, claiming that if it doesn’t involve violence, then it’s A-OK. Ignoring, of course, the issue of age of consent, among other things. > . But was he actually advocating an illegal activity, or only stating that this activity should be legal? It makes a huge difference. (I didn’t read the thread). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/27 "2004-11-29T03:01:39Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > I banned LadMirer and his buddy. I MIGHT have let LadMirer continue posting, but it was apparently a board invasion…I did some investigating and found that he was posting on a “boylove” board as well, with a post inviting everyone to look at the SDMB thread. Thanks for the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/28 "2004-11-29T03:04:44Z")
Diogenes (who else) yelled: > [@](#): > > No it isn’t, you ignorant fuck. Pedophilia is a pathology created by early childhood trauma, usually sexual trauma. It is not an inborn orientation. Do not insult homosexuals with this fucking garbage. Care to cite that fact of which you so assuredly speak? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/29 "2004-11-29T03:08:51Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > He was doing all kinds of swearing in GD. The price is wrong bitch, goodbye. To be fair to (yech) **LadMirer** , the swearing was in the _second_ thread. Laddy and his skeevy friends were quite articulate and polite in the original thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/30 "2004-11-29T03:10:22Z")
> [@JonScribe](#): > > That, itself, should be reason enough to **outlaw pedophilia** as a self-perpetuating evil. how the fuck are you proposing doing that? if mind reading were legal would you require everyone to submit to a pedophilia scan? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/31 "2004-11-29T03:13:35Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > if mind reading were legal… errr, that should be “possible” :o ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/32 "2004-11-29T03:13:44Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Diogenes (who else) yelled: > > Care to cite that fact of which you so assuredly speak? Hey, fuckface, you’re the one who asserted that pedophiles are born that way. You pony up the cite. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/33 "2004-11-29T03:15:26Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No it isn’t, you ignorant fuck. Pedophilia is a pathology created by early childhood trauma, usually sexual trauma. It is not an inborn orientation. Do not insult homosexuals with this fucking garbage. How is it insulting to homosexuals to say that pedophillia is either genetic or has a genetic component? I mean, there’s research saying that there may be a genetic component to violent behaviour too–are those researchings insulting homosexuals with their fucking garbage? Is there some kind of law that says only positive or neutral traits can have a genetic component? And if you’re gonna call someone an ignorant fuck, the least you can do is cough up some cites. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/34 "2004-11-29T03:15:18Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No it isn’t, you ignorant fuck. Pedophilia is a pathology created by early childhood trauma, usually sexual trauma. It is not an inborn orientation. Do not insult homosexuals with this fucking garbage. I’ve yet to be convinced that what you’re stating is true. Actually, I’ve yet to be convinced by _anything_ I read about pedophilia, since it involves such an enormous emotionnal baggage (for both people who speak against it and advocate it). Besides, it isn’t insulting for homosexuals in any way. The fact that some behavior you have no issue with is inborn doesn’t mean that other behaviors you have an issue with aren’t. If I argue that being a psycopath is innate, is it an insult for people with Down’s syndrom? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/35 "2004-11-29T03:16:35Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Care to cite that fact of which you so assuredly speak? Well, i’m not sure about the causes of pedophilia, but one thing not in dispute is that pedophilia, unlike homosexuality, is listed in the American Psychiatric Association’s _Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders_ (DSM-IV). This issue actually came up at the APA’s Annual Meeting last year, as there was a move by a few members to have pedophilia and other paraphilic mental disorders removed from DSM-IV. The Association released a [statement](http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/apa_statement_jun03.htm) in June, 2003, confirming that the paraphilic disorders would remain in the Manual, and outlining the criteria for pedophilia, which are: > [@](#): > > A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger); > B. The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty; > C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A. Of course, we need to be a little bit careful about granting the APA sole discretion over what is and is not acceptable behavior. After all, the Association listed homosexuality as a mental disorder until the early 1970s. I’m not saying that they are wrong on the issue of paraphilia; only that they have been wrong before. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/36 "2004-11-29T03:21:03Z")
There is no research to showthat pedophilia is inborn. There is plenty to show that it is caused by sexual abuse. Trying to say that it’s inborn is a backhanded swipe at homosexuals. It’s an attempt to ridicule the innate nature of sexual orientation by comparing it to a paraphilia. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/37 "2004-11-29T03:25:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Hey, fuckface, you’re the one who asserted that pedophiles are born that way. You pony up the cite. I don’t think there’s a lot of proof one way or the other. The best way of finding out information about its cause is to talk to the actual pedophiles themselves, which is why we should have let LadMirer stay. I think the insults are a little off-base. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/38 "2004-11-29T03:28:48Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > I don’t think there’s a lot of proof one way or the other. The best way of finding out information about its cause is to talk to the actual pedophiles themselves, which is why we should have let LadMirer stay. > > I think the insults are a little off-base. Talking to pedophiles is exactly why we know that there is an almost 100% correlation with childhood sexual abuse. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/39 "2004-11-29T03:29:05Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Diogenes (who else) yelled: > > Care to cite that fact of which you so assuredly speak? I believe the burden is on you, doctor, to cite you assertion that pedophilia is inborn and not learned behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/40 "2004-11-29T03:29:21Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Trying to say that it’s inborn is a backhanded swipe at homosexuals. It’s an attempt to ridicule the innate nature of sexual orientation by comparing it to a paraphilia. Regardless of the truth of the cause, you are getting entirely too weird here. Many mental diseases are genetic. Why is saying that this one may be a swipe at anyone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058.md?page=3)