# LadMirer shouldn't have been banned **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058 "2004-11-29T00:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/81 "2004-11-29T04:35:08Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > Your cite has been shown to be incorrect. By whom? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/82 "2004-11-29T04:38:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > By the way, anyone who is able is freely invited to find some numbers for that correlation on their own and post them. I can’t find any stats at all. I’m willing to be corrected. My fucking ass you are. You have come in here widely spouting stats and insulting anyone who dares disagree with you. But you know what I am gonna do it anyway: > [@](#): > > The transmission hypothesis seems to be very popular, especially among journalists, and that’s why widely distributed. Unfortunately, only in a very simplified form and as a proven fact: > The reason for pedophilia is sexual abuse in the childhood. > > \*\* This has nothing to do with reality \*\* , and also nothing with the scientific results about this theory. At first, there is only a correllation, that means a higher probability of being incarcerated as a “child molester” if there have been sexual relations as a child. According to retrospektive studies, \*\* 5-57% \*\* of the delinquents have been sexually abused as children Eat crow fuckface. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/83 "2004-11-29T04:39:49Z")
oops heres the [link](http://www.paedosexualitaet.de/pedo/transmission.html) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/84 "2004-11-29T04:41:19Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So as long as you don’t insult people you can post any ignorant ass assertion you want as though it were fact? No, but it doesn’t mean you have to be abusive or foul-mouthed when calling them on it, either. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/85 "2004-11-29T04:45:34Z")
> [@treis](#): > > My fucking ass you are. You have come in here widely spouting stats and insulting anyone who dares disagree with you. But you know what I am gonna do it anyway: > > Eat crow fuckface. Hey, moron, your link goes to a **pro** -pedophilia site. You should be more careful about vetting your own links. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/86 "2004-11-29T04:50:59Z")
**Dio** , note the quote you cherry-picked from mhendo’s post. The woman is a psychologist, not a researcher. As she works in the court systems, her experience is naturally going to be entirely skewed; EVERY CLIENT she works with is either a molester or an abuse victim. This would hardly make her an expert on non-criminals who are yet attracted to children. I’ve held my nose and done some googling (adding the word “pathology” to the search seems to have filtered out the uglier side of the internet) and as far as I can tell, pedophile != molester, and molester != pedophile. Not only that, but apparently molester != prior abuse victim either. I’ve found my own cite [here.](http://www.tdh.texas.gov/hcqs/plc/csottreatment.htm) Check the “Common Myths” link. I don’t know what triggered your knee jerk reaction or your frothing at the mouth. It’s an ugly subject, true, but willful ignorance about its nature and possible causes only makes things uglier. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/87 "2004-11-29T04:52:25Z")
OK, I’ll consider the “desire” to pierce a scrotum and rob a gas station and address it has a valid analogy… > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Some people react to abuse by getting their scrotums pierced or by robbing gas stations or by shooting up smack. It would be be stupid to say that since not everybody robs gas stations that there must be a genetic component. The thing is, no one is saying the equivalent of “not everybody robs gas stations so there must be a genetic component.” What I’m trying to say is “not everybody who was physically abused as a child robs gas stations, so there must be components that aren’t physical abuse. Perhaps some of those components are genetic.” > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > > [@Metacom](#): > > > > Because he didn’t say that those who believed otherwise were “fucking ignorant,” nor as he said that what you say is “fucking garbage,” nor has he called you a “fuckface.” > > So as long as you don’t insult people you can post any ignorant ass assertion you want as though it were fact? No, but if you’re going to attack someone for making “ignorant ass” assertions as though they were fact, you may want to refrain from doing this: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m not weaseling out, I just don’t give a fuck. My post is my fucking cite. Take it or leave it. when you are in turn called on your own assertions. It just seems kinda intellectually dishonest, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/88 "2004-11-29T04:58:25Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > [I’ve held my nose and done some googling (adding the word “pathology” to the search seems to have filtered out the uglier side of the internet) and as far as I can tell, pedophile != molester, and molester != pedophile. I never said it did. I have made no comment at all about pedophiles acting out or not. I have spoken only in terms of what causes the desire. > [@](#): > > Not only that, but apparently molester != prior abuse victim either. I’ve found my own cite [here.](http://www.tdh.texas.gov/hcqs/plc/csottreatment.htm) Check the “Common Myths” link. Your cite only says that not all _offenders_ were _sexually abused_. I did not say that the abuse had to be sexual, I said there had to be _trauma_…and not all offenders are pedophiles. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/89 "2004-11-29T05:03:50Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No it isn’t, you ignorant fuck. Pedophilia is a pathology created by early childhood trauma, usually sexual trauma. It is not an inborn orientation. Do not insult homosexuals with this fucking garbage. I don’t know, nor much care, if pedophilia is genetic or learned. (Although I always assumed it was genetic, but WTF do I know?) However, your attack on **PaulFitzroy** is utterly stupid. Take a look at what he actually wrote: > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > On the other hand, it’s fair to say that people are born pedophiles just like people are born homosexuals **or heterosexuals.** Notice the bolded part there? Or heterosexuals. _Or heterosexuals._ He is equating pedos with gays and pedos to straights to _exactly the same extent_. The basic premise of his statement clearly relies on an assumed equivalency between heterosexuality and homosexuality, and the relationship of pedophilia to _both_ orientations. This can not, in anyway, be reasonably interpreted as a homophobic statement, as you (and others) have done in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/90 "2004-11-29T05:06:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t know, nor much care, if pedophilia is genetic or learned. (Although I always assumed it was genetic, but WTF do I know?) However, your attack on **PaulFitzroy** is utterly stupid. Take a look at what he actually wrote: > > Notice the bolded part there? Or heterosexuals. _Or heterosexuals._ He is equating pedos with gays and pedos to straights to _exactly the same extent_. The basic premise of his statement clearly relies on an assumed equivalency between heterosexuality and homosexuality, and the relationship of pedophilia to _both_ orientations. This can not, in anyway, be reasonably interpreted as a homophobic statement, as you (and others) have done in this thread. I think he was just covering his ass, but I already said if he was willing to clarify that he was drawing no equivalency between homosexuality and pedophilia then I would retract my statement. What the fuck does **Bricker** have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/91 "2004-11-29T05:12:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think he was just covering his ass, but I already said if he was willing to clarify that he was drawing no equivalency between homosexuality and pedophilia then I would retract my statement. Once again: The point people are trying to make isn’t that he made no such no equivalency, but that the equivalency that he did make wasn’t insulting to gays. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/92 "2004-11-29T05:19:15Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Once again: The point people are trying to make isn’t that he made no such no equivalency, but that the equivalency that he did make wasn’t insulting to gays. I beg to differ. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/93 "2004-11-29T05:32:20Z")
[hijack] You step off the boards for a couple of days, and look what happens… Has the original thread been taken down? What in the blue blazes _happened_? [/hijack] Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/94 "2004-11-29T05:38:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Your cite only says that not all _offenders_ were _sexually abused_. > > I did not say that the abuse had to be sexual, I said there had to be _trauma_…and not all offenders are pedophiles. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Talking to pedophiles is exactly why we know that there is an almost 100% correlation with childhood sexual abuse. I didn’t realize that my cite was for a pro-pedophillia site. I retract it as a site. This does not change that you are lying, posted incorrect facts and insulted people that called you on your bullshit. How is that crow tasting? ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/95 "2004-11-29T05:41:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I never said it did. I have made no comment at all about pedophiles acting out or not. I have spoken only in terms of what causes the desire. > > Your cite only says that not all _offenders_ were _sexually abused_. I apologize for reading your assertion wrong, but since pedophilia is such an understudied field it’s a fairly safe bet that the only remotely accurate stats you might find would come from studies of criminal sexual offenders. I doubt you’d get many non-offenders freely volunteering such information about their pedophilic sexual desires and their suspected causes. Your next statement is incorrect: > [@](#): > > I did not say that the abuse had to be sexual, I said there had to be _trauma_…and not all offenders are pedophiles. Oh, yes, you did. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There is no research to showthat pedophilia is inborn. There is plenty to show that it is caused by sexual abuse. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Talking to pedophiles is exactly why we know that there is an almost 100% correlation with childhood sexual abuse. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There is no doubt that pedophilia is perpetuated within families. That in itself does not prove a genetic component, especially when the correlation with sexual abuse is so high. It’s no wonder you feel you’re being misunderstood, here. And on preview, > [@Metacom](#): > > Once again: The point people are trying to make isn’t that he made no such no equivalency, but that the equivalency that he did make wasn’t insulting to gays. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I beg to differ. Provide the cite for why you differ. “I was taught it in class, so it’s a fact” is not a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/96 "2004-11-29T05:43:06Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I didn’t realize that my cite was for a pro-pedophillia site. I retract it as a site. > > This does not change that you are lying, posted incorrect facts and insulted people that called you on your bullshit. How is that crow tasting? What did I lie about? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/97 "2004-11-29T05:44:41Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think he was just covering his ass, but I already said if he was willing to clarify that he was drawing no equivalency between homosexuality and pedophilia then I would retract my statement. Yeah, and the best way to do that is to call him a fuckface _first_. > [@](#): > > What the fuck does **Bricker** have to do with anything? Just doing my part as a member of the non-psychotic left. We all hope you come back real soon. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/98 "2004-11-29T05:45:25Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So as long as you don’t insult people you can post any ignorant ass assertion you want as though it were fact? Actually I think we need a rule or at least a tacit agreement of just the oppostie. Our friend **Diogenes the Cynic** has admitted on a few occasions that he flies off the hand far more easily when he is not as familiar with a subject. Notice that his cite so far has been “I got it from a human sexuality class in college”. I suggest we take him at his word and simply ignore him when he does this. Perhaps we could alter our manifesto to fighitng polite ignorance and ignoring the rest? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/99 "2004-11-29T05:46:12Z")
Are we having reading comprehension troubles? I pointed it out to you, Jenaroph pointed it out to you and I will point it out again. I even bolded it for you. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > \*\* I did not say that the abuse had to be sexual \*\* , I said there had to be trauma…and not all offenders are pedophiles. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Talking to pedophiles is exactly why we know that there is an almost 100% correlation with \*\* childhood sexual abuse. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058/100 "2004-11-29T05:46:35Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I apologize for reading your assertion wrong, but since pedophilia is such an understudied field it’s a fairly safe bet that the only remotely accurate stats you might find would come from studies of criminal sexual offenders. I doubt you’d get many non-offenders freely volunteering such information about their pedophilic sexual desires and their suspected causes. > > Your next statement is incorrect: > > Oh, yes, you did. OK, I was sloppy. The high correlation is with childhood trauma. That trauma can take many forms. > [@](#): > > Provide the cite for why you differ. “I was taught it in class, so it’s a fact” is not a cite. I need a cite for an opinion? It’s my _opinion_ that equating homosexuality with pedophilia is insulting to people who are homosexual. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladmirer-shouldnt-have-been-banned/277058.md?page=6)