# Lady Antebellum is now Lady A **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486 "2020-06-11T21:20:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/61 "2020-06-13T20:37:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “Only”? I wouldn’t know. “Vast majority”? Damn skippy. Always learning, eh? > > How you did not know this before, and yet live as an adult in the USA? The answer to that is part-and-parcel of the US’s problem, right there. > > I’ll say it again - I’m half a world away, in a developing country, and yet I knew stuff like this as a kid. Not the word “antebellum”, but what the South was like. > > What’s your excuse? My excuse is that what I specifically said was that I didn’t know the precise meaning of “antebellum” and therefore would not have associated it with plantations and if one doesn’t know that “antebellum” is associated with plantations , one also would not have known the word had any connection with slavery. If I had seen a photo of a big white house labelled as an “antebellum mansion” , I would have assumed it belonged to a wealthy person. If I had thought about it , I might have decided that that wealthy person was probably a plantation owner - but that still wouldn’t have told me that the word “antebellum” is associated with plantations and apparently wouldn’t have been used for a mansion owned by someone who became wealthy in some other way or one that wasn’t located on a former plantation. It doesn’t mean I didn’t know that plantations are associated with slavery. You have somehow constructed a whole story about things you think I don’t know because I had only the vaguest idea of the meaning of one particular word ( that I have not encountered all that often) ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/62 "2020-06-13T20:55:57Z")
I associated the word with the pre-war South and its Latin sound gave me the impression that it was a bit wrapped up in the “Lost Cause” sentiment. I wasn’t specifically aware of the term “antebellum architecture” but I just googled it now and I would’ve assumed most of those homes were plantation homes likely built on the foundation of a slavery-dependent economy. That being said, these aren’t things I inherently knew and some of them I didn’t learn until adulthood. Like **doreen** , I would’ve noted these large homes as just belonging to rich Southerners, and it probably would’ve taken me a few minutes of thought to connect that to slavery. Since I’ve never lived in the South, I don’t see or hear about these homes hardly at all, so it becomes one of those “out of sight, out of mind” type things. I visited a distant relative in Atlanta several years ago and I was shocked (yes, that’s the word) that many new communities included “plantation” in their names. In my mind, that word carried even more baggage than antebellum and I still can’t believe people would actually call their new housing developments something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/63 "2020-06-13T20:56:24Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > My friends and I say “unclean thoughts” about a woman as a joke. Maybe a few people use that term seriously. As someone who has had to deal with sexist crap since childhood I find nothing amusing or funny about it. If you say you’re having “unclean thoughts” about a woman I will assume you find her sexually desirable. Which gets into why anyone would think sex is automatically unclean, but the point is that there was absolutely nothing in your post to make the casual reader think you were joking. I don’t care if you find a woman sexually desirable. That’s a normal thing for either a hetersexual male or a homoesexual female, or for bisexuals or pan sexuals. I don’t find that offensive. Why I _do_ find weird to the point of creepy is you are now insisting that it was all a “joke”. Yeah, right. Anyhow, maybe I’m the only white northerner who, upon first hearing Lady Antebellum’s name, though “WTF would anyone name themselves something meaning the pre-Civil War South?” Then I was also confused as hell because the music they made didn’t actually sound like the bunch of bigoted rednecks I was expecting. If they were doing pop-country WTF did they adopt such an off-putting name? Then again, I actually paid attention in history class. And had a decent history teacher. A lot of people didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/64 "2020-06-13T23:28:33Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > My excuse is that what I specifically said was that I didn’t know the precise meaning of “antebellum” and therefore would not have associated it with plantations and if one doesn’t know that “antebellum” is associated with plantations , one also would not have known the word had any connection with slavery. If I had seen a photo of a big white house labelled as an “antebellum mansion” , I would have assumed it belonged to a wealthy person. If I had thought about it , I might have decided that that wealthy person was probably a plantation owner - but that still wouldn’t have told me that the word “antebellum” is associated with plantations and apparently wouldn’t have been used for a mansion owned by someone who became wealthy in some other way or one that wasn’t located on a former plantation. It doesn’t mean I didn’t know that plantations are associated with slavery. > > You have somehow constructed a whole story about things you think I don’t know because I had only the vaguest idea of the meaning of one particular word ( that I have not encountered all that often) And, you know what, I do find that _ **believable.** _ A huge number of people in the US do not know in the first place what the \*word \*“antebellum” itself even _means_, never mind what’s the association involved. And certainly there are many who at best only know it as just an architectural style, like saying Georgian or Neogothic or Bauhaus, having learned it divorced of context. And yes it _ **is** _ possible for someone to never have felt the need to go looking for that context and subtext. When people are in a position to not need to look out for how or whether language is hurting them, the usual default position is they don’t. That said… > [@Broomstick](#): > > Anyhow, maybe I’m the only white northerner who, upon first hearing Lady Antebellum’s name, though “WTF would anyone name themselves something meaning the pre-Civil War South?” I too found it kind of peculiar. Then again I believe the Dixie Chicks have been brought up. I suppose they could have been cutely trying to play off of the earlier act’s moniker. > [@](#): > > Then I was also confused as hell because the music they made didn’t actually sound like the bunch of bigoted rednecks I was expecting. If they were doing pop-country WTF did they adopt such an off-putting name? Because at some point, in their environment and around the audiences they wereplaying to it was \*\*\*not \*\*\* as off-putting – as seen by the sales and the pop crossover. And look at the way you describe your own expectation of hearing “bigoted rednecks” just from the use of the word – most of the population _simply is not so conditioned_. Heck, _ **I** _ did not expect bigoted rednecks, just mostly because most of those I’ve met couldn’t even spell “antebellum”… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/65 "2020-06-14T02:14:56Z")
**[Moderating]** OK, let me make this an official moderator instruction: **Bijou Drains** , we do not need to hear about your “unclean thoughts”, sincere or joking. Any further discussion of this point in this thread will lead to a Warning. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/66 "2020-06-14T04:42:23Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And, you know what, I do find that _ **believable.** _ A huge number of people in the US do not know in the first place what the \*word \*“antebellum” itself even _means_, never mind what’s the association involved. And certainly there are many who at best only know it as just an architectural style, like saying Georgian or Neogothic or Bauhaus, having learned it divorced of context. > > And yes it _ **is** _ possible for someone to never have felt the need to go looking for that context and subtext. When people are in a position to not need to look out for how or whether language is hurting them, the usual default position is they don’t. > > That said… > I too found it kind of peculiar. > > Then again I believe the Dixie Chicks have been brought up. I suppose they could have been cutely trying to play off of the earlier act’s moniker. Because at some point, in their environment and around the audiences they wereplaying to it was \*\*\*not \*\*\* as off-putting – as seen by the sales and the pop crossover. And look at the way you describe your own expectation of hearing “bigoted rednecks” just from the use of the word – most of the population _simply is not so conditioned_. Heck, _ **I** _ did not expect bigoted rednecks, just mostly because most of those I’ve met couldn’t even spell “antebellum”… Even though I do know what the word means I see it so infrequently I have to pause and remember which period it is referring. I may have thought it meant the period right after the war at some point. I don’t know, maybe around here they don’t make any effort to pretty up that period of time with fancy words. If I were to decide to use the word in a band name it would be my responsibility to understand all the connotations of the word. Maybe some good is coming out of it. For a few people their vocabulary is expanding by one word. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/67 "2020-06-14T06:42:45Z")
Antibellum Latin _ante bellum_ before the war Yes, it also implies the culture and slavery that supported the regional economy. > **[Definition of ANTEBELLUM](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antebellum)** > > existing before a war; especially : existing before the American Civil War… See the full definition Lady A made a wise decision to adopt a new name. ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/68 "2020-06-14T08:28:55Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > … It never occurred to me that their name has racist connotations. It made me think “stupid country band” but I didn’t associate it with slavery. And yes, I absolutely knew / know the definition of “antebellum” but, I guess as part of my white privilege, I tend to think of architecture / styles of the time. > … This describes me to a T. Had no idea that “antebellum” was a dog whistle to the Lost Cause die-hards. ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/69 "2020-06-14T08:32:38Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > …I’ve been in diversity and inclusivity meetings lately, and have had otherwise smart, thoughtful people (and not just cis white males) share things like "I recently learned that I should stop saying “pow wow” … Consider me educated. I had no idea that “pow wow” is no longer acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/70 "2020-06-14T11:02:33Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#): > > Consider me educated. I had no idea that “pow wow” is no longer acceptable. It’s cultural appropriation. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/71 "2020-06-14T11:06:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Lady A made a wise decision to adopt a new name. Agreed, but I’m not sure that they made a wise choice of name. Am I the only one who, when they saw the title of this thread, thought “Lady A–hole? What’s this thread about?” And that still pops into my head each time I see it. Did they not focus-group the new name? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/72 "2020-06-14T13:24:17Z")
Ah, OK, I was wondering about that. When I lived in Montana, the University hosted an annual pow-wow (which I kept on meaning to visit but never got around to). But it was put on by actual Native American tribesmembers. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/73 "2020-06-14T14:01:34Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > It’s cultural appropriation. Does that mean that shindig, luau and schvitz are banned too? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/74 "2020-06-14T14:59:08Z")
Potluck? Borscht? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/75 "2020-06-14T16:40:41Z")
Hullabaloos days are numbered. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/76 "2020-06-14T17:34:41Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > The country band Confederate Railroad is having similar problems. They also used the confederate flag on stage. > Dumb. [CAF](https://commemorativeairforce.org/aircraft), the group that likes to fly around warbirds, used to stand for Confederate Air Force. I think it was tongue in cheek – it was founded in Texas, everybody’s rank was Colonel, and it motto was _Semper, Mint Julep._ In 2002 the name was changed to Commemorative Air Force. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/77 "2020-06-14T19:15:18Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > It’s cultural appropriation. > [@Chronos](#): > > Ah, OK, I was wondering about that. When I lived in Montana, the University hosted an annual pow-wow (which I kept on meaning to visit but never got around to). But it was put on by actual Native American tribesmembers. Right, if you are referring to an \*actual \*PowWow it’s no problem. If the loanword’s referring to the very thing that defines it in the original context, that’s not appropriation. It’s just using a loanword. So of course “borscht” is not going to be excluded. Unless, I suppose, you are using it to refer to some concoction completely unrelated to a borscht. OTOH at the next _symposium_ I attend I am going to insist wine be consumed during the proceedings, in order to honor the origin. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/78 "2020-06-14T23:55:29Z")
I’m a white Californian, an I immediately went ‘hmm, I dunno, what are they trying to say with that name,’ but I’m open to reserving judgement until I’d reviewed their catalogue and presentation. Same way I reacted to **The Civil Wars** , although nothing I’ve seen in their catalogue and presentation makes me think Lost Causers. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/79 "2020-06-15T00:27:11Z")
They are obviously not around anymore but the most disgusting band name of all time is Joy Division. Whenever those fucking cretins have been asked about the name in interviews, as far as I have seen, they just crack a joke about it. They knew exactly what it meant when they formed the band. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486/80 "2020-06-15T01:17:09Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > They are obviously not around anymore but the most disgusting band name of all time is Joy Division. Whenever those fucking cretins have been asked about the name in interviews, as far as I have seen, they just crack a joke about it. They knew exactly what it meant when they formed the band. Care to share that meaning with the rest of us? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lady-antebellum-is-now-lady-a/855486.md?page=5)