# ladyfoxfyre \>\> step in please **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 14, 2007, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961 "2007-06-14T04:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/121 "2007-06-16T01:35:33Z")
[QUOTE=ladyfoxfyre] I’m sorry, but when did we decide that it was the addict’s responsibility to decide when they’re an addict? I thought that’s what detox and interventions and mandatory drug testing for drug offenders was all about…the fact that addicts have no perspective to determine whether they are addicts or not? [/QUOTE] The OP has posted in the past that he is on methadone _maintenance_ therapy for opiate addiction. Opiate addicts who take methadone for maintenance therapy and who also take other opiates concurrently to treat _chronic_ pain generally don’t have good outcomes with their methadone maintenance, opiate addiction, or their chronic pain. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/122 "2007-06-16T01:46:58Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] And my bizarro world allows me to disagree with antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. Your point being? [/QUOTE] My point being that opioids do not create resistant strains of bacteria. I thought I was clear that I support laws that protect society at large. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/123 "2007-06-16T04:04:43Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] The OP has posted in the past that he is on methadone _maintenance_ therapy for opiate addiction. [/QUOTE] Maintenance? Okay, Doc, yer the Pro From Dover here when it comes to junkies scamming the system. Does that mean they aren’t weaning him, just keeping him doped up enough (forever) he’s not robbing **Vinyl Turnip** ’s favorite liquor store? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/124 "2007-06-16T08:45:31Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] The OP has posted in the past that he is on methadone _maintenance_ therapy for opiate addiction. Opiate addicts who take methadone for maintenance therapy and who also take other opiates concurrently to treat _chronic_ pain generally don’t have good outcomes with their methadone maintenance, opiate addiction, or their chronic pain. [/QUOTE] Not to mention his many threads about problems with his 'scrips. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/125 "2007-06-16T16:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] **Lib** , that’s very true. Which is why the idea of a no-regs drug distribution scares the ever-living shit out of me. [/QUOTE] I don’t oppose all regulation. Only that which impedes a peaceful honest person from pursuing his own happiness in his own way. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/126 "2007-06-16T16:29:54Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I don’t oppose all regulation. Only that which impedes a peaceful honest person from pursuing his own happiness in his own way. [/QUOTE] You cannot always have one without the other. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/127 "2007-06-16T16:41:35Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] You cannot always have one without the other. Sorry. [/QUOTE] Are you apologizing for making a gratuitous assertion? 😛 (Which, by the way really doesn’t make sense — you cannot have regulation that impedes peaceful honest people from pursuing their own happiness their own way without having peaceful honest people who pursue their own happiness in their own way?) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/128 "2007-06-16T16:58:15Z")
No. You cannot always have regulation without having some which impedes peaceful, honest people from pursuing happiness in the their own way. But you knew that’s what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/129 "2007-06-16T18:56:40Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I don’t oppose all regulation. Only that which impedes a peaceful honest person from pursuing his own happiness in his own way. [/QUOTE] I am a peaceful honest person and you know what impedes me from pursuing my own happiness in my own way? Having to pay the medical bills for drug-addcited morons. As long as I am forced to pay for their medical bills, I’ll have a say in what drugs they get to take. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/130 "2007-06-16T19:39:41Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] No. You cannot always have regulation without having some which impedes peaceful, honest people from pursuing happiness in the their own way. [/QUOTE] Makes more sense, but still completely gratuitous. By regulating initial force and deception, I can allow peaceful honest people to pursue their own happiness in their own way. By definition, they do not run afoul of such regulation. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I am a peaceful honest person and you know what impedes me from pursuing my own happiness in my own way? Having to pay the medical bills for drug-addcited morons. I completely agree. That’s why our regulations suck. I mean hell, if you’re paying for my mistakes, why should I try to do things right? > [@](#): > > As long as I am forced to pay for their medical bills, I’ll have a say in what drugs they get to take. Well, sure. As long as you’ve been conscripted, you may as well shoot somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/131 "2007-06-16T20:09:36Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Makes more sense, but still completely gratuitous. By regulating initial force and deception, I can allow peaceful honest people to pursue their own happiness in their own way. By definition, they do not run afoul of such regulation. [/QUOTE] I live next door to you. It makes me happy to play my electric guitar (badly) through the night until the Sun comes up, with the amp cranked up to 11. Unfortunately for you, since this involves neither force nor deception, there’s nothing you can do about this. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/132 "2007-06-16T20:52:35Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] I live next door to you. It makes me happy to play my electric guitar (badly) through the night until the Sun comes up, with the amp cranked up to 11. Unfortunately for you, since this involves neither force nor deception, there’s nothing you can do about this. [/QUOTE] But it IS force, which is why SWAT teams use it to besiege suspects. A fist or club or gun is not the only thing that can impair a person’s well-being. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/133 "2007-06-16T20:54:30Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I don’t oppose all regulation. Only that which impedes a peaceful honest person from pursuing his own happiness in his own way. [/QUOTE] Don’t we have an obligation at some point to keep people from unknowingly killing themselves in the persuit of self happiness? Drug interations are serious and complicated issues requiring a lot of education which far exceeds that of the common person. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/134 "2007-06-16T21:08:23Z")
[QUOTE=Enderw24] The difference is this: people can consume alcohol and enjoy its effects -without becoming addicted- more readily than people could do with oxycontin. [/quote] That’s not true as stated. Alcohol is not necessarily less addictive than opiates. > [@](#): > > I don’t have statistics, but I am going to assume that the VAST majority of people taking painkillers don’t do it for the cheap buzz on a Saturday night. They do it because they currently need or in the past did need pain medication. For those that do not need it anymore, and still continue to take it, they are addicted. They were given medication to relieve pain and now they’re addicted. At the point of addiction, with regard to pain medication, these people are no longer rational thinking adults. They’re addicts. And giving them free reign on their medication (one, you must remember, they never chose to start but rather had it thrust upon them by means of an accident or other disability), isn’t fighting the Nanny State. It isn’t helping these people. Fortunately, the rate of people who become addicted after being treated with pain medication is extraordinarily low. On the order of 1/3000. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/135 "2007-06-16T21:11:55Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] The OP has posted in the past that he is on methadone _maintenance_ therapy for opiate addiction. Opiate addicts who take methadone for maintenance therapy and who also take other opiates concurrently to treat _chronic_ pain generally don’t have good outcomes with their methadone maintenance, opiate addiction, or their chronic pain. [/QUOTE] Not to mention the fact that it’s just stupid, because the methadone is going to keep the other opiates from doing anything unless you take a huge amount that no doctor is going to keep prescribing. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/136 "2007-06-16T21:18:37Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Maintenance? Okay, Doc, yer the Pro From Dover here when it comes to junkies scamming the system. Does that mean they aren’t weaning him, just keeping him doped up enough (forever) he’s not robbing **Vinyl Turnip** ’s favorite liquor store? [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s what maintenance is. The existence of methadone maintenance is good evidence for the argument that opiate addiction in and of itself doesn’t do much, if any, harm. (Constipation can be pretty unpleasant, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/137 "2007-06-16T21:38:22Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] But it IS force, which is why SWAT teams use it to besiege suspects. A fist or club or gun is not the only thing that can impair a person’s well-being. [/QUOTE] I suspect your definition of “force” is broad enough to include nearly anything, then. Which is going to cause a whole new set of problems. So, how do you define what constitutes force, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/138 "2007-06-16T22:36:39Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t fight the hypothetical] My point being that opioids do not create resistant strains of bacteria. I thought I was clear that I support laws that protect society at large. [/QUOTE] No, you weren’t clear-you were bitching about a nanny state, because I asked **ladyfoxfyre** a simple question. Get over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/139 "2007-06-16T23:28:59Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I don’t oppose all regulation. Only that which impedes a peaceful honest person from pursuing his own happiness in his own way. [/QUOTE] Who gets to make the determination of just _who_ is a “peaceful honest person?” You? Me? Society? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961/140 "2007-06-16T23:54:06Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] The existence of methadone maintenance is good evidence for the argument that opiate addiction in and of itself doesn’t do much, if any, harm. [/QUOTE] I would disagree. Methadone is extremely long-acting, and does not provide anywhere near the euphoric rush of other opiates as morphine, heroin, or oxycodone. Those are short-acting drugs which give a rapid euphoria followed by a nasty crash, which often inspires desperate action such as assault and theft, to obtain more. Maintaining a person on methadone generally prevents the other opiates from having their euphoric ‘kick’ take place, if they are consumed with the methadone on board. Unfortunately, many addicts try to override the methadone’s blocking effects, and end up looking quite silly, or dead, or both, when they OD on ground-up oxycontin or other opiates trying to reach that magic buzz. gotta run, din-din is served. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ladyfoxfyre-step-in-please/407961.md?page=8)