# Lagerfeld: take care of the zillions of fat before denouncing skinny people **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 4, 2009, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805 "2009-01-04T10:03:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/41 "2009-01-05T18:49:55Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > As I said in another recent thread, being called an asshole by the likes of you is high praise. So thanks. Hey, don’t mention it. It’s the highest level an Objectivist can attain. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/42 "2009-01-05T19:49:18Z")
> [@Rand Rover](#): > > Or what? They have to pay a fine? No. That wouldn’t be workable. The definition of ‘realistic’ is too subjective to form the basis for any kind of legal prohibition of the advertising tactics currently employed by the fashion industry. Consumer pressure would be far more effective. > [@Rand Rover](#): > > Should this requirement apply to all adverts or just to fashion ads? Fashion ads, cosmetics ads, health and fitness ads, basically just any ads which explicitly work to make people feel bad about their appearance to sell them crap they don’t need. > [@Rand Rover](#): > > who determines whether ads are realistic or not? We do it ourselves with common sense. Obviously, people’s standards for what is and what isn’t acceptable will differ. That’s why I’m against fixing the problem with legislation. > [@Rand Rover](#): > > Do food companies have to depict realistic representations of their food? If there was a food company whose adverts made people want to starve themselves they’d probably go out of business before their marketing could pose a problem 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/43 "2009-01-05T20:21:09Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You’re right. It could also just be empty rhetoric, an announcement that “I will be mad at X if they don’t do Y because X should do Y,” which amounts to absolutely nothing. Are you serious? If X valued whether or not I was mad at him, then my being mad at him obviously amounts to something, doesn’t it? Simple criticism can itself be a deterrent to behavior, depending on who and what we’re talking about. Consumer-driven industries tend to be highly-sensitive to public criticism. I’m not sufficiently familiar enough with the fashion industry to know which types of criticism they are most responsive to, but criticism itself is by no means a meaningless action. I can’t believe this actually has to be explained to someone. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/44 "2009-01-05T21:14:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There is, of course, the very famous case of Naomi Wolf, who in her book “The Beauty Myth” asserted that 150,000 American women a year died of anorexia. The actual number lied somewhere in the vicinity of 75. Not 75 thousand, just 75, making it roughly as common a cause of death as being struck by lightning. > > . Data point. I know exactly one person that had anorexia so bad it shoulda killed em, and probably did eventually. My brother was stuck by lightning, being knocked unconcious for awhile. Ironically, the girl with anorexia was my brothers girlfriend in high school. So those numbers sound pretty darn right to me. As for people I know that are WAYYY too fat, much much larger number than 1. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/45 "2009-01-05T21:39:34Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Are you serious? If X valued whether or not I was mad at him, then my being mad at him obviously amounts to something, doesn’t it? > > Simple criticism can itself be a deterrent to behavior, depending on who and what we’re talking about. Consumer-driven industries tend to be highly-sensitive to public criticism. I’m not sufficiently familiar enough with the fashion industry to know which types of criticism they are most responsive to, but criticism itself is by no means a meaningless action. > > I can’t believe this actually has to be explained to someone. Look, I understand when a poster pits a person or business. What I don’t understand is when a poster says “X should not do Y,” as if there is some universal moral or ethical rule that X has violated by doing Y. I guess what I should do from now on though is to mentally translate “X should not do Y” into “I’m upset with X for doing Y” and leave it at that barring any other evidence of what the person means (i.e., any actual discussion of forbidding X from doing Y). I guess as a former high school policy debater and current lawyer I’m always looking for the policy angle when in reality people just want to vent their spleen (and they use the “should” formulation as an attempt to add some moral authority to their preferences). ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/46 "2009-01-05T21:47:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do food companies have to depict realistic representations of their food? As a matter of fact, yes. They do. > [@](#): > > There is a law in the USA regarding truth in advertising. It requires that > advertisements about food show the actual food item that a consumer > would be purchasing and eating. The food surrounding the item being > advertised can be artificial and so can the food to illustrate cookery > books or magazine articles. [Cite](http://tutor.petech.ac.za/art/websites/photo_2006/warner/images/Articles/Food_Photography.pdf) (PDF!) The article goes on to say that the FDA is lax in prosecuting violator, that does not mean that there aren’t rules against that. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/47 "2009-01-05T22:15:44Z")
I have no figures to back me up, but I posit that the fashion industry’s deifying dangerously slim women doesn’t just lead some women to eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia, but also leads other women to overeating and obesity. Karl suggests we take care of obese people first. Okay. Let’s do that by building a fashion industry around women with healthy bodies, not emaciated bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/48 "2009-01-05T22:51:01Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > A distinction really needs to be drawn between anorexia nervosa and disordered eating. Or, at least, the spectrum of disordered eating has to be acknowledged. is every girl who reads fashion magazines going to end up thinking she’s fat after starving herself down to 80 lbs? No. Wanting to shrink away to nothing is just as likely to be genetic or as a reaction to unwanted sexual attention or abuse. Will teenagers and women feel fat and worthless at 5 ft 5 and 120 lbs? There’s a decent chance, if they can’t avoid tabloids of even ‘health’ magazines (Shape, I’m looking at you). Will they spend more time dieting and working out than concentrating on actual life skills and pleasurable hobbies, get a bit obsessive about food ? Probably. They may not be near death, but it’s certainly cutting into living life to its fullest. Yeah, that’s a good point. Most people aren’t walking skeletons, but they may still have issues. “I’m so fat/I’m so bad–I ate soo much” just seems like normal female parlance, even among women who don’t have eating disorders. > [@](#): > > Oh, and someone needs to go back in time and punch Fat Karl Lagerfeld in the gut. The fact that he himself was overweight makes me wonder–is it sort of a resentment about the way he used to be? I’ve noticed other formerly fat people doing the same thing. Thin people are often rude about the overweight–but this just seems much more vicious. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/49 "2009-01-05T23:25:03Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > I have no figures to back me up, but I posit that the fashion industry’s deifying dangerously slim women doesn’t just lead some women to eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia, but also leads other women to overeating and obesity. > > Karl suggests we take care of obese people first. Okay. Let’s do that by building a fashion industry around women with healthy bodies, not emaciated bodies. Huh. I’ll take a WAG that the average land-whale of either sex waddling up for their fourteenth plateful at the All-You-Can-Scarf buffet, or snacking on their fifth family-size bag of Cheetos, neither knows nor cares what a fashion clotheshorse looks like. That’s not to say that, should you be minded to shove a chuck under the fashion industry and set light to it, I’d be reluctant to lend you my Zippo, only that I doubt it’s the leading factor in female (or male) obesity, or anything like close to it. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/50 "2009-01-06T21:10:47Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Look, I understand when a poster pits a person or business. What I don’t understand is when a poster says “X should not do Y,” as if there is some universal moral or ethical rule that X has violated by doing Y. Well, maybe he does think there is an ethical or moral rule that’s being violated. But instead of determining that, or debating that, you leaped to government fines. > [@](#): > > I guess what I should do from now on though is to mentally translate “X should not do Y” into “I’m upset with X for doing Y” and leave it at that barring any other evidence of what the person means (i.e., any actual discussion of forbidding X from doing Y). I guess as a former high school policy debater and current lawyer I’m always looking for the policy angle when in reality people just want to vent their spleen (and they use the “should” formulation as an attempt to add some moral authority to their preferences). What you should do is realize that there is a whole spectrum of societal action between doing nothing and rolling in the tanks. And as a lawyer, you should be aware that (1) just because someone may view an action as unethical or immoral, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they think it should be illegal, and (2) a weaker form of sanction (such as social condemnation) may be desirable when a stronger form of sanction would cause other problems. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_McCello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Alistair\_McCello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alistair_McCello)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/51 "2009-01-06T21:41:30Z")
I really have nothing of substance to add to this conversation… but am I the only one that realizes that [this man](http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/56314/thumbs/s-KARL-LAGERFELD-large.jpg) is clearly the villain from a Bond movie? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/52 "2009-01-07T21:49:43Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Huh. I’ll take a WAG that the average land-whale of either sex waddling up for their fourteenth plateful at the All-You-Can-Scarf buffet, or snacking on their fifth family-size bag of Cheetos, neither knows nor cares what a fashion clotheshorse looks like. Huh? Going along with the stereotype, these folks probably park themselves in front of the TV a lot, right? Pretty much every woman on TV shows is exceptionally thin and gorgeous and this is considered the norm. Anything above size 10 is “plus size” and gets talked about that way. I know you have lost a lot of weight and think anyone can do it if they just try hard enough (which may be true), but is it really worth dumping on people who haven’t done it yet, and maybe never will? > [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > A distinction really needs to be drawn between anorexia nervosa and disordered eating. Or, at least, the spectrum of disordered eating has to be acknowledged. is every girl who reads fashion magazines going to end up thinking she’s fat after starving herself down to 80 lbs? No. Wanting to shrink away to nothing is just as likely to be genetic or as a reaction to unwanted sexual attention or abuse. And disordered eating includes compulsive overeating, which can also be a repsonse to abuse or not wanting sexual attention. Food is my drug because it’s cheaply available and will be there for me when other people aren’t. And if I’m never going to live up to some ideal, who cares if my drug makes me fat? For the moment I am following a more healthful food plan, but I haven’t been high in quite a while and eventually I will need to be. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805/53 "2009-01-08T00:25:03Z")
> [@Alistair\_McCello](#): > > I really have nothing of substance to add to this conversation… > > but am I the only one that realizes that [this man](http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/56314/thumbs/s-KARL-LAGERFELD-large.jpg) is clearly the villain from a Bond movie? 😛 Yes! Except that K.L. makes several of the Bond arch-villains look almost normal by comparison. [We need a “laughing” smiley with an open mouth and no tongue sticking out.] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lagerfeld-take-care-of-the-zillions-of-fat-before-denouncing-skinny-people/479805.md?page=2)