# Lance Armstrong cleared. Can they finally leave him alone? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 4, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768 "2012-02-04T17:11:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/81 "2012-06-19T02:04:29Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > Steelers fan aren’t you? Doesn’t the fact that your entire offensive line from the 70’s is pretty much dead bother you much? Gotta call it… cite? I just looked at the '72 Steelers roster at pro football reference and found 7 players (out of 50) on that team that have passed. 7/50=14% 14% != “… entire offensive line from the 70s is pretty much dead…” Don’t throw numbers out when arguing from your heart. 😉 (I also think the comment was a bit… low… for the Game Room. Airman did nothing to deserve your tone or accusation.) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/82 "2012-06-20T07:33:09Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I happen to think that individual athletic events should be a showcase for the absolute capabilities of human beings, and since there clearly is room for humans to advance their performance I’m all for it. [Why stop with drugs?](http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18324621.800-marathon-mice-can-run-and-run.html) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/83 "2012-06-20T21:16:45Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > HUH?? So those who choose to not dope should be at a grievous disadvantage because they choose to go at it the legal/rule way? Everybody is at a grievous disadvantage in some way. Life’s not fair. Why should it bother me that somebody is choosing to destroy themselves? It doesn’t bother anybody that I’m doing what I’m doing. > [@](#): > > Steelers fan aren’t you? Doesn’t the fact that your entire offensive line from the 70’s is pretty much dead bother you much? Individuals have a right to make their own decision.. but this is a sport.. their are rules. LA can’t attach a jet pack to his bike. Nope. It doesn’t bother me in the least that people made their choice and perhaps died from it. As far as the rules go, they weren’t breaking the rules. In fact, using steroids was very common in the 1970s. It’s trendy to say that the Steelers were the only ones, but that is simply false. I’m very consistent on this subject. I simply don’t care that they do it. I can generate no outrage. None. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/84 "2012-06-21T02:59:29Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I read a joking comment the other day asking the question: if LA was to be stripped of his TdF titles (or some of them) who the hell would they be able to give the title/s to? I’m not (quite) so obsessive as to go back and work out exactly which of the also-rans in the TdF during LA’s years _haven’t_ since been determined to have been doping, but I think if this occurred you’d end up having to announce that the winner was someone outside the top ten, in some or even many cases. A little googling found [this](http://www.brettluelling.com/post/3435612945/armstrongs-tdf-victories). If he loses all 7 tours, Jan all of a sudden as 4 tours. I mean, I love the dude but that’s freakin hilarious. I haven’t really put my thoughts together on what to think of the last few decades of cycling and how to view it from a historical perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Bannedit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Bannedit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bannedit)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/85 "2012-06-28T08:02:18Z")
“Everybody wants to know what I’m on. What am I on? I’m on my bike, busting my ass 6 hours a day.” - Lance Armstrong He did train for the tour more than anyone else, even missing other races so he could devote time to the tour. He also had the best coach, the best equipment, the best technology and a great team behind him. He also said (not a direct quote) that after all the drugs he took to kill the cancer, why would he want to put more drugs in his body? He had enough of drugs. I know, I know. He took the PEDs to win the races to promote his Livestrong campaign and get more money for cancer research… If that is the case, do the ends justify the means? In any case, I’m a believer. I’m not a religious person, but it is nice to believe in something. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/86 "2012-06-28T09:43:45Z")
> [@Bannedit](#): > > “Everybody wants to know what I’m on. What am I on? I’m on my bike, busting my ass 6 hours a day.” - Lance Armstrong As someone else once put it, every single top ranked cyclist in the pro tour is right on the edge between maximum training and overtraining at all relevant times. It is an insult to them all to believe LA was special in this respect. > [@](#): > > He also said (not a direct quote) that after all the drugs he took to kill the cancer, why would he want to put more drugs in his body? So he could keep up with the other guys who were doping. Duh. > [@](#): > > He took the PEDs to win the races to promote his Livestrong campaign and get more money for cancer research… If that is the case, do the ends justify the means? His Livestrong campaign started in 2004 and most of LA’s wins (and accusations of doping to do so) predate that. If you are going to worship someone, you could at least make an attempt to master the basic timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Bannedit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Bannedit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bannedit)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/87 "2012-06-28T12:27:11Z")
He was special in that respect because he trained for the Tour. He rode the key stages upwards of 8 times prior to the race. He rode the toughest mountain stages several times in a day in preparation. Other riders didn’t focus as intently on the tour itself. I never said I worshiped anyone. I said it was nice to believe in something. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/88 "2012-06-28T19:04:25Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I read a joking comment the other day asking the question: if LA was to be stripped of his TdF titles (or some of them) who the hell would they be able to give the title/s to? They probably wouldn’t - they would just say, “No winner”. Otherwise, you have to take into account all of the time bonuses the riders get for finishing in the top three in non-time-trial segments, and I think mid-race sprints as well, although those might only be for the first two at each one. ---
**Author:** ![Anomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Anomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomie)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/89 "2012-07-05T11:03:48Z")
[OK, so this is serious now](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/90 "2012-07-05T11:19:18Z")
> [@Anomie](#): > > [OK, so this is serious now](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong) It’s been this long, you’d think they could have waited 2 1/2 weeks till the TdF was over before releasing this news. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/91 "2012-07-05T11:30:08Z")
> [@Anomie](#): > > [OK, so this is serious now](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong) Could you please offer a brief summary or some indication of the content when you offer a link? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/92 "2012-07-05T11:46:13Z")
There is a news story saying that four highly respected and still riding former team-mates of LA are going to give evidence against him. They are going to cop six month suspensions themselves but those suspensions are only going to start at the end of this season (ie they are a slap on the wrist). The team-mates are Hincapie, Leipheimer, van de Velde and Zabriskie. These same riders [all requested not to be considered for Olympic selection](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-opted-out-of-olympics)a short while ago, and many suspected that this must be because something was about to come out about them, and they didn’t want to embarrass the Olympic team. I’m always a bit wary about people who agree to give evidence in return for protection but it does reach the point where the weight of witnesses starts to become a little convincing. If, of course, this latest story is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/93 "2012-07-05T11:57:47Z")
Am I the only who read the title and came into this thread hoping to see a link to a teary hysterical “LEAVE LANCE ALONE!!!” YouTube video? I’m another who remains hopeful that Armstrong will be vindicated. But then I used to be a Joe Paterno fan too, and we know how that worked out. ---
**Author:** ![Shosy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@Shosy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shosy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/94 "2012-07-05T12:32:11Z")
In Spain at least, the feeling (not fact) was that he got special treatment because of his cancer, that he was knowing allowed by officials to take anything he wanted and use the cancer treatments as a defense. Thats bar talk of crouse. ---
**Author:** ![Bannedit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Bannedit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bannedit)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/95 "2012-07-07T22:27:10Z")
Based on these latest news reports I have found my faith more shaken now than in the past. I see the current 5 names as more credible than Floyd Landis, Frankie Andreu as well as the speculation of Greg LeMond. Anyone in a similar boat? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/96 "2012-07-07T22:37:42Z")
Not me, I don’t really have any faith in Lance Armstrong that one could shake. FWIW, Greg LeMond has raised doubts over Armstrong’s record on several occasions in the past ([wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_LeMond#Anti-doping_stance_and_controversy)), in case you find his voice compelling and authoritative. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/97 "2012-07-07T22:49:38Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Everybody is at a grievous disadvantage in some way. Life’s not fair. Why should it bother me that somebody is choosing to destroy themselves? It doesn’t bother anybody that I’m doing what I’m doing Life in general might not have fairness built into it but a man-made institution such as a sporting competition has the duty to attempt to maintain a certain level playing field and taking steps preventing a situation in which only those who submit to life threatening drug treatments have a hope of competing at at the top levels means that the competition is meaningless as a a competition between human beings. You might as well be arching robots compete or a video game. Athletics is essentially meaningless in that paradigm. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/98 "2012-07-08T18:56:23Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Gotta call it… cite? > > I just looked at the '72 Steelers roster at pro football reference and found 7 players (out of 50) on that team that have passed. > > 7/50=14% > > 14% != “… entire offensive line from the 70s is pretty much dead…” > > Don’t throw numbers out when arguing from your heart. 😉 > > (I also think the comment was a bit… low… for the Game Room. Airman did nothing to deserve your tone or accusation.) You don’t know what he means by “offensives line”, do you. I don’t know if he’s right or not, but its possible based on the numbers you cite. There are only 5 or 6 starters on the OL for any team. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/99 "2012-07-09T16:06:50Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Everybody is at a grievous disadvantage in some way. Life’s not fair. Why should it bother me that somebody is choosing to destroy themselves? It doesn’t bother anybody that I’m doing what I’m doing. Nobody said life is fair. But that doesn’t mean you go completely the other way. Why do we not allow cheating in sports? That’s what roids are, quite frankly – a way to cheat. You can’t compete honestly, so you cheat. Why not go all the way and allow corked bats? Why not allow hockey players to have illegally curved sticks? What difference does it make then? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768/100 "2012-07-10T06:47:10Z")
Woah, so this morning I read this story saying Armstrong [had filed a case in the District Court in Austin Texas](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-files-federal-lawsuit-against-usada) seeking to restrain the USADA’s action against him on the basis that it was “unconstitutional” and a “kangaroo court”. Armstrong was seeking a restraining order because he says the USADA seeks to force him > [@](#): > > "to choose by 5:00 pm eastern on July 14, 2012 either to participate in USADA’s **pre-ordained proceeding** or to agree to **skip the pretense altogether** and accept USADA’s sanctions. My emphasis. Anyone else getting a strong whiff of desperate meltdown? And now about seven hours later [we get this story](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrongs-federal-lawsuit-against-usada-dismissed): the case has been thrown out in _less than a day_ with the judge saying > [@](#): > > This Court is not inclined to indulge Armstrong’s desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement or vilification of Defendants, by sifting through eighty mostly unnecessary pages in search of the few kernels of factual material relevant to his claims. and > [@](#): > > Contrary to Armstrong’s apparent belief, pleadings filed in the United States District Courts are not press releases, internet blogs, or pieces of investigative journalism. All parties, and their lawyers, are expected to comply with the rules of this Court, and face potential sanctions if they do not. Ouch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-cleared-can-they-finally-leave-him-alone/611768.md?page=6)