# Lance Armstrong enters the pit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786 "2013-01-20T05:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/41 "2013-01-20T18:29:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > After he’d begun winning, he began taking out insurance on his victories. (If he won, he got paid–I have no idea what idiot in the insurance company agreed to that bit.) They are going to want their payouts back for at least three races, maybe more. As I understand it, SCA was insuring the performance bonuses in Lance’s contract. It wasn’t Lance taking out insurance, it was his team. This isn’t a ridiculous idea, if you’re doing the same with a bunch of other athletes. They can’t all win, often by definition. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/42 "2013-01-20T19:03:34Z")
> [@resting](#): > > So lance should get away with cheating, John? Did I say that? Read the post I was responding to. Not many people follow cycling. Anyone who has, and who knows that world, knows that it’s just rife with doping. That doesn’t make what Lance did OK, it’s just that I can’t get too worked about the poor guy who, allegedly, didn’t dope. If it wasn’t Lance who kept that guy from winning, it would have been 500 other guys who doped, too. But as the saying goes: It’s not so much the crime, it’s the cover-up. I’m not going to condone doping, but that wasn’t his worse crime. His worse crime was trying to ruin other peoples’ lives. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/43 "2013-01-20T19:16:46Z")
I’m with Lewis Black on this. The guy was on death’s door with cancer, took steroids and beat every other steroid user in the Tour d’ France seven fucking times. I’m not happy with his calling everyone a liar, but we really should be providing steroids to more people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/44 "2013-01-20T19:42:57Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > If only he was a staunch Republican voter. I’m pretty sure he is. Regarding Klosterman: > [@](#): > > But I’ve noticed something about the people who always argued he was innocent — for the most part, they now say things like, “Actually, I don’t even care if he used steroids.” I read this the other day and had a flashback to a former Doper who did this all the time: “YOU GUYS ARE WRONG! YOU GUYS ARE WRONG! YOU GUYS ARE WRONG! … Fine, you’re right. I don’t give a fuck.” ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/45 "2013-01-20T19:54:45Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Correction: Doped-up Lance Armstrong was the best at riding bicycles fast for a long time. You cannot separate his natural ability from his enhanced performance because he did not win on his own merits. > > If he was that good that the doping wouldn’t have mattered, then he wouldn’t have doped. No, I had it right the first time. He doped because everyone else did. As I said he competed on a level playing field bike riding wise. It’s naive or ignorant of the facts to believe that drugs alone can win the race. Lance drew scrutiny _because_ he won. They don’t take apart the losers engines at Indy. I agree about the douchebag narcissist of the highest order bit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/46 "2013-01-20T19:56:35Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > He doped because everyone else did. No, he doped because he wanted to beat the people who were doping. Not literally every single rider was doping and I don’t think they all had access to the same techniques, so the playing field was not level. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/47 "2013-01-20T20:04:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, he doped because he wanted to beat the people who were doping. Not literally every single rider was doping and I don’t think they all had access to the same techniques, so the playing field was not level. Actually, it’s more than likely that every rider was doping. Each team has a designated leader such as Armstong. He’s the only one going for the win, the others are there to support the effort(Getting feed bags, exchanging wheels in case of a flat, breaking the wind to get the leader back to the front after a break-down, etc.) Despite being (slightly) lesser riders, they’re expected to keep up with the leaders. Being on the same team, they have access to the same drugs and techniques. [Domestique](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestique) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/48 "2013-01-20T20:09:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, he doped because he wanted to beat the people who were doping. Not literally every single rider was doping and I don’t think they all had access to the same techniques, so the playing field was not level. Obviously by “everyone” I meant everyone who placed in the top. There are no secrets in training anymore. The key ingredient is hard work. The playing field was level in that all of the top teams chose to use or disregard training techniques at their discretion. I have no real dog in this fight nor have I ever defended LA in the past. Again hypothetically, if no one doped I believe he would still have won. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/49 "2013-01-20T20:14:00Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Actually, it’s more than likely that every rider was doping. Each team has a designated leader such as Armstong. He’s the only one going for the win, the others are there to support the effort(Getting feed bags, exchanging wheels in case of a flat, breaking the wind to get the leader back to the front after a break-down, etc.) Despite being (slightly) lesser riders, they’re expected to keep up with the leaders. Being on the same team, they have access to the same drugs and techniques. Perhaps I misunderstood, but if he pushed other riders to cheat, that suggests they weren’t doping. Maybe that’s about specific techniques or just the support riders you mentioned. > [@White SIFL](#): > > Again hypothetically, if no one doped I believe he would still have won. Based on his career to that point - and I say this as someone who doesn’t follow cycling either - no, he would not have. He was not good enough to win races like this before he started cheating. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/50 "2013-01-20T20:14:54Z")
> [@resting](#): > > If you don’t give a fuck, than you support cheating and are most likely a sociopath. I agree wholeheartedly. I not only contribute (auto deduct from my paycheck) to the Cheaters Foundation I also taunt the elderly and manipulate congress just to make a young girl cry. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/51 "2013-01-20T20:24:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Perhaps I misunderstood, but if he pushed other riders to cheat, that suggests they weren’t doping. Maybe that’s about specific techniques or just the support riders you mentioned. > > Based on his career to that point - and I say this as someone who doesn’t follow cycling either - no, he would not have. He was not good enough to win races like this before he started cheating. Before his cancer, he was known as a one day rider not a good stage race rider. He did win the World Championship in 1993. He was rather large, most likely because of his earlier career as a triathlete. He came back from cancer a good 15-20 lbs. lighter which will make a huge difference in his aerobic capacity. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/52 "2013-01-20T21:04:08Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Before his cancer, he was known as a one day rider not a good stage race rider. He did win the World Championship in 1993. He was rather large, most likely because of his earlier career as a triathlete. > > He came back from cancer a good 15-20 lbs. lighter which will make a huge difference in his aerobic capacity. Damn that’s a big testicle. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/53 "2013-01-20T21:37:48Z")
You know, the cheating at a sport I don’t care anything about, in which evidently EVERYONE cheats, is not that big of a deal. Really. But the fact that this asshole SUED friends, colleagues, and others for defamation of his character when they were telling the truth firmly moves him into the bottom-of-the-barrel-scum-of-the-earth category. He tried to destroy people’s lives, essentially, just for revenge for them telling the truth. He called this a “major flaw” of his. What a fucking understatement. The man is utter, complete slime. He deserves nothing but to fade into complete obscurity where he belongs and always should have been. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/54 "2013-01-20T22:00:13Z")
You know who has the biggest smile about this whole thing? Greg LeMond ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/55 "2013-01-21T14:15:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You can’t put yourself in the shoes of the guys who wanted to win the Tour de France without taking drugs? The guy who would have won, if it hadn’t been for the junkies breaking all the rules? Which guy was that? Not [Jan Ullrich](http://www.ibtimes.com/lance-armstrongs-success-pushed-jan-ullrich-resume-doping-845607) nor [Joseba Beloki, Ivan Basso, Andreas Kloden, etc.](http://www.theradsport.com/the-doping-records-of-the-top-5-finishers-from-lance-armstrongs-7-tour-de-france-victories/); presumably you mean the guy who finished #9, was also doping, but ranked so low they didn’t bother testing him. And there are plenty of Wall St. traders still driving their Maseratis who’d be bunking with Madoff if they weren’t a bit smarter. Welcome to the modern world. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/56 "2013-01-21T14:26:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You know who has the biggest smile about this whole thing? Barry Bonds? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/57 "2013-01-21T15:34:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You know who has the biggest smile about this whole thing? Pete Rose? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/58 "2013-01-21T15:39:46Z")
Jim Thorpe? (well, more of a rictus, since he’s been dead all these years) ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/59 "2013-01-21T16:52:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Which guy was that? Not [Jan Ullrich](http://www.ibtimes.com/lance-armstrongs-success-pushed-jan-ullrich-resume-doping-845607) nor [Joseba Beloki, Ivan Basso, Andreas Kloden, etc.](http://www.theradsport.com/the-doping-records-of-the-top-5-finishers-from-lance-armstrongs-7-tour-de-france-victories/); presumably you mean the guy who finished #9, was also doping, but ranked so low they didn’t bother testing him. > > And there are plenty of Wall St. traders still driving their Maseratis who’d be bunking with Madoff if they weren’t a bit smarter. Welcome to the modern world. The article you quoted states that presumably, they started doping because LA did. And at least two guys in the Top 5 hasn’t been implicated in any doping - Andrei Kivilev and Haimar Zubeldia. Which guys, you asked? These guys. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786/60 "2013-01-21T17:35:29Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Pro athletes have tortured dogs, raped and murdered people and they are still active in their prospective sports. What rapists and murderers are still active in pro sports? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-enters-the-pit/647786.md?page=4)