# Lance Armstrong giving up the fight vs. USADA, may be stripped of his titles **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 24, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447 "2012-08-24T02:49:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/201 "2012-08-27T23:19:03Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > That’s what they have referees for and video review. > > Hockey: [http://www.nhlofficials.com/rule57.asp](http://www.nhlofficials.com/rule57.asp) > > “_In case of an obvious error in awarding a goal or an assist that has been announced, it should be corrected promptly, but changes should not be made in the Official Scoring Summary after the Referee has signed the Game Report._” > > So, 7 years from now if someone tries to dispute a goal that may have awarded one team the Stanley Cup over another, they can be told to go pound sand. And rightly so. Once the Game Report is signed, it is official. Different sports have different rules, and cycling is more like the Olympics in terms of awards being vacated than it is like the NHL. So you’re quoting the manual for how one aspect of one sport is played as though that specific standard should be applied to every other sport imaginable? That’s funny, considering the [NHL’s policy on banned substances in their players:](http://www.nhlpa.com/about-us/drug-testing-program-summary) > [@](#): > > TESTING PROCEDURES: > > Following their orientation session on the program, every NHL player will be subject to up to three “no-notice” tests from the start of training camp through the end of the Regular Season. Testing is conducted as follows: 10 teams will be subject to one no-notice test, 10 teams will be subject to two no-notice tests and 10 teams will be subject to three no-notice tests. > > DISCIPLINARY PENALTIES: > [snip] > For the third positive test, a permanent suspension. A player receiving a third positive test and a permanent suspension from play in the League will, however, be eligible to apply for reinstatement after two years. The application would be considered by the Committee. > > [snip] > PROHIBITED SUBSTANCES LIST: > > The Committee agreed to ban as performance-enhancing substances, the steriods and related substances currently included by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) on its out-of-competition testing list. WADA? Hmm…I think I’ve heard of them before… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/202 "2012-08-27T23:19:10Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > That’s what they have referees for and video review. > > Hockey: [http://www.nhlofficials.com/rule57.asp](http://www.nhlofficials.com/rule57.asp) > > “_In case of an obvious error in awarding a goal or an assist that has been announced, it should be corrected promptly, but changes should not be made in the Official Scoring Summary after the Referee has signed the Game Report._” > > So, 7 years from now if someone tries to dispute a goal that may have awarded one team the Stanley Cup over another, they can be told to go pound sand. And rightly so. Once the Game Report is signed, it is official. Ridiculous hypothetical to follow, but I hope you’ll see the point. Let’s say that one team has found a way to have invisible players on the field who are not detectable by current video technology or the ref’s eyes. The additional players use very subtle tactics so that there is nothing obviously out of the ordinary, but they manage, by interference and the odd helping hand here and there, to help their team win many prestigious competitions. Ten years later the technology becomes well known and video enhancing techniques that work on archived video are developed that allow officials to detect the presence of the additional players. It turns out that this great team had been cheating all along. Should the team’s wins still stand? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/203 "2012-08-27T23:21:04Z")
You don’t even have to go that far, **Richard Pearse**. Just say that one team won the Stanley Cup, was drug tested following the victory, and every single player was on steroids. In **Uzi** ’s book, that isn’t cheating, so they still go home with the trophy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/204 "2012-08-28T00:41:20Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You don’t even have to go that far, **Richard Pearse**. Just say that one team won the Stanley Cup, was drug tested following the victory, and every single player was on steroids. In **Uzi** ’s book, that isn’t cheating, so they still go home with the trophy. > :rolleyes: You asked for an example, didn’t like it when I gave one that proved that contests could be decided at the time they are played rather than years after, and are now butt hurt. Color me un-surprised. Don’t bother asking next time. And where did you get the idea I didn’t think it would be cheating? Of course it is cheating. The NHL has a drug policy that is separate from the outcome of the game. If a player is discovered having used drugs, they are penalized. It doesn’t affect the outcome of past games, though. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/205 "2012-08-28T00:43:46Z")
Here’s a pretty good post from The Science of Sport about the case. This is one of their few posts that doesn’t include a lot of science. [http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/08/the-armstrong-fallout-thoughts-and.html](http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/08/the-armstrong-fallout-thoughts-and.html) It addresses a number of questions that have been raised and has links to other relevant and interesting articles. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/206 "2012-08-28T00:48:50Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > So if two athletes are similarly gifted as far as talent and work ethic, we should allow PEDs to determine the “better” of the two? What’s next in your world, cross-breeding breeding mutants for specific (sports?) accomplishments? Well yeah. I’m not arguing that that is a sensible thing to get all enthusiastic about, by the way. It’s clearly a stupid thing to be into. But far less than ones than sports where it’s all about physical luck. By the way most sports are about more than physical luck. E.g. football (soccer) - you can have all the right physical makeup but there’s ahelluva lot of control, coordiation, tactics etc. That could still apply to cycling. Of course cycling is still gonna be MOSTLY just based on the physical make up of the person. That’s one reason it’s so boring and only followed in France and Belgium. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/207 "2012-08-28T01:16:07Z")
Thanks, **Princhester** (and others)(but mostly Princhester) for your insightful contributions. I’ve always had a strong sense that Armstrong was a cheat (and said so before on this board) but it’s pleasant to see those inklings backed up tenaciously by someone who actually knows quite a bit of the facts of the case. I’m glad that Armstrong’s given up his ridiculous saga as it will hopefully contribute to shutting up his some of his mouth breathing followers that are throwing around stupid talking points about witch hunts, kangaroo courts, and ‘the worlds most tested athlete’. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/208 "2012-08-28T01:38:18Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > You asked for an example, didn’t like it when I gave one that proved that contests could be decided at the time they are played rather than years after, and are now butt hurt. Color me un-surprised. Don’t bother asking next time. The point is that the rules that apply to one sport aren’t necessarily appropriate for another. Holding them up as an example of “a contest that is determined at the time” is stupid. All contests are determined at the time. And if it is discovered later that you cheated to get that result, you’re punished and you don’t get to keep the victory. That isn’t a difficult concept to comprehend. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/209 "2012-08-28T02:02:56Z")
No problem **Svejk**. I don’t even really know that much about all this. It’s just that cycling isn’t a big sport in the US so people on these largely US boards don’t know much about the cycling context, while (paradoxically) thinking that they “know” Lance Armstrong as a cycling hero. Consequently LA is a subject about whom there is a remarkable noise to signal ratio. I don’t have to know much to stand out here. I know so little about cycling that on cycling forums I wouldn’t dare open my mouth 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/210 "2012-08-28T03:34:29Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > The point is that the rules that apply to one sport aren’t necessarily appropriate for another. Holding them up as an example of “a contest that is determined at the time” is stupid. All contests are determined at the time. And if it is discovered later that you cheated to get that result, you’re punished and you don’t get to keep the victory. That isn’t a difficult concept to comprehend. The real point is that rules for sports are arbitrary and can be changed as needed. You asked a question and I answered it with an example. And no, the Stanley Cup isn’t taken away from a team where its members are found later to have been using drugs. Nor are their records removed from when they played. Hey, whatever. Keep a minor sport looking even more stupid than it already is. Track down the ne’r do wells even after they are in the grave for all I care. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/211 "2012-08-28T04:11:57Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > …Of course cycling is still gonna be MOSTLY just based on the physical make up of the person. That’s one reason it’s so boring and only followed in France and Belgium. Beyond abomination, translation, please. Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/212 "2012-08-28T09:30:42Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > So, 7 years from now if someone tries to dispute a goal that may have awarded one team the Stanley Cup over another, they can be told to go pound sand. And rightly so. Once the Game Report is signed, it is official. " Following the game, Finland launched a protest, demanding that the result be over-turned because the Germans had used an ineligible player. At the time, players were not allowed to switch nationalities under any circumstances and the IIHF agreed to overturn the result and award the two points to Finland." > **[Ice Hockey World Championships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Hockey_World_Championships)** > > The Ice Hockey World Championships are an annual international men's ice hockey tournament organized by the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF), first officially held at the 1920 Summer Olympics. The IIHF was created in 1908 while the European Championships, the precursor to the World Championships, were first held in 1910. The tournament held at the 1920 Summer Olympics is recognized as the first Ice Hockey World Championship. From 1920 to 1968, the Olympic hockey tournament was also co... The more that this discussion goes on, the happier I am with the whole outcome. Not only has Armstrong rightfully been stripped of fake victories obtained through but it’s also upsetting people who believe that it’s ok to cheat if you don’t get caught. Splendid stuff! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/213 "2012-08-28T09:54:56Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Hey, whatever. Keep a\*\* minor sport\*\* looking even more stupid than it already is. Considering the tour de france has a greater worldwide audience than the stanley cup, what does that make ice hockey? Unknown, or fringe? ---
**Author:** ![Shearer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@Shearer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shearer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/214 "2012-08-28T12:16:20Z")
Interesting interview with Christophe Bassons > [@](#): > > Were you surprised by the Armstrong decision? > > I wasn’t surprised. He had to choose the best solution given the difficult circumstances in which he found himself. Knowing the person he is, he would really have to have his hands tied to give up the fight and choose some form of abandon. But even then, he maintains the fierce desire to control things: “I’ve had enough, I’m stopping this.” The illusion of control is primordial. Armstrong, thanks to his money and political connections, can afford to behave like that. He lives for nothing more than putting himself above us mere mortals. I’m more sad for him than anything else. This need to feel superior, to crush all competition is certainly rooted in his past. > > Without any particular suggestion of doping, just the American’s announcement was enough to trigger a media scramble. How do you see the press’ role in this? > > It’s right on time, since I’m organising a debate in November on the role of the media in doping activities. Until now, nobody has given any additional proof of Armstrong’s doping. The media reversal depends on this simple decision of his. Journalists are the prisoners of judicial proceedings. Even if some of them wanted to talk about it, they can’t get started with anything other than the facts we have so far. Sometimes that’s a responsible attitude to have, but all these journalists and these former riders who have jumped on the bandwagon since Friday, all of them already knew about these sorts of doping methods. I think we’re far from what the media’s role ought to be in the prevention of doping. When we value winners and gold medals above all, how can we be surprised if a sportsperson finds no shame in cheating? > > How do you take the return of suspended riders like Valverde or Contador? > > It isn’t right that a sportsperson suspended two years for doping comes back full of pride for winning races. Why don’t they own up? Why aren’t they ashamed at having cheated? > > In 1999, you were under enormous pressure, notably from Armstrong, to decide to quit the Tour. Can you recall for us this painful episode in your career? > > I was riding my first Tour de France in the colours of FDJ. The year before, my previous team Festina had been thrown out of the race due to the scandal we all know about. Up to then, I had never been in line for selection, given my refusal to dope. I was writing a column for Le Parisien in which I would describe my first Tour. I was already known by then as the peloton’s “Mr Clean”. Very quickly, I realised that we were going a lot faster. Guys would do 200 kilometres without letting up, they were in better shape after eight or nine days’ racing than at the start. This is why I say that, not only can you not win the Tour without doping, you can’t even really put the hammer down on everyone during a stage. Very quickly, I was sidelined by my DS, Marc Madiot, my teammates. Then Armstrong won a really hard stage to Sestrières. The next day, the peloton decrees that we ride steadily for 100km before disputing the victory in the last 80km to Alpe d’Huez. Being blacklisted, I didn’t know any of this, and I ended up hearing about it from a mechanic in my team. So I decided as a provocation to attack from the gun. Lance Armstrong got his team to ride and my own team helped him. I was caught quickly and the American grabbed me by the shoulder, told me I had no place here and finished with the famous “flip you”. I just smiled. Two days later, I abandoned the race, worn out by the pressure I’d put up with for the last two weeks. Then I put up with six months of depression. > > At the time, your DS, Marc Madiot, blamed you for your views > > Today, the FDJ is in a better place with regard to doping. Young guys now have the opportunity to finish their education, which makes them more balanced and shows them there’s more out there than just sport. On the '99 Tour, he yelled at me and told me to shut up. But he and Lance Armstrong were the only ones who openly let me know what they thought of me. I credit them at least for their honesty. Madiot is old school. Perhaps he has changed. Anyway, he’s fortunate enough to have a really decent sponsor. > > Can we say Armstrong’s and the peloton’s behavior was like that of a mafia? > > He has always sought to position himself as the patron. But I think he didn’t have the same authority as someone like Bernard Hinault in his day. Lots of French riders thought and still think like me. However, they think about their careers and they know well enough how easy it is to get dropped from the sport. If you break the vow of silence, you can count on never winning another race. > > What do you say to those who defend Armstrong by saying that all riders are doped and therefore he was still a great champion who was better than the rest? > > I speak from personal experience. At Festina in winter, I used to drop Virenque on the hills, I tested better than Zülle (world time-trial champion, twice runner up in the Tour). Then, as soon as the programme got underway, I slipped down the hierarchy of the team. You can’t hide from that: a rider on EPO gives himself the advantage of a turbo. I think that, between a clean guy who finishes in the top 80 in Paris and the winner who shoots up, there’s no difference. If you put them on an equal footing, the 80th guy could perhaps beat the yellow jersey. Anyway, a truly great champion is not the same as a sportsperson who dopes. To be that champion, you have to be completely solid, mentally, physically and socially. > > You now work in doping prevention. You speak out against the presence of doctors in the heart of teams > > The team doctor is there for performance, not for medical care. The issue of doping includes everything that’s forbidden in terms of doping activity. Without going into extreme, Doctor Mabuse examples, all the means of recovery that are available are used by these doctors to optimise performance. In fact, that’s the doping practice. If tomorrow they legalised EPO, I’m certain all the peloton would be using it. What annoys me about this “recovery management” is the fact that proper fatigue is of reduced importance. Riding a 21-day race is not so very tough if you don’t let yourself get too worn down. In six years as a pro, I never had cause to visit a team doctor. I had my general practitioner and the race doctor if necessary. > > Can you tell us about your work with the AFLD? > > I’m the local anti-doping representative in the Aquitaine region. I make myself available to conduct doping controls as required. I’m also a member of the regional commission on trafficking of doping products. > > What experience do you get from these activities? > > The big worry right now is over dietary supplements. In the rugby schools and in other sports, these supplements are becoming part of the training regime. And if you’re using them, the day when they no longer provide any benefit, you might try something else. At the end of the year, I also think that the use of corticosteroids will be really bad. The law has altered and now they’re almost legal. Cyclists use them a heck of a lot. > > Why do people dope in your opinion? > > I don’t think we take enough notice of the psychological aspect of doping. We hear often that it’s nothing more than a question of money in sport. So how does that explain the fact that the sport in which doping is most pervasive is weightlifting? The majority of them don’t do it for money, but for love and acceptance. On the issue of drug addiction, we have known for a long time that talking up the health dangers is not the best way to approach the matter. A doped rider who wins races feels better in his head, he gets social recognition and I can’t even be sure that he is putting his health in danger. We dope for our mental wellbeing, whether that’s motivated by a lack of money, a need for personal recognition or a desire for social recognition. > > So does that make Armstrong a disastrous example? > > What example does this affair set? A rider who dopes can beat the tests and only gets caught, if he ever does, fourteen years after the fact. And the worst thing of all, he’s still as sure of himself, still has no shame at having cheated. There’s a real education problem and the role of the media, I insist, is essential in this. That’s where we need to do some work. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/215 "2012-08-28T13:27:19Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > The real point is that rules for sports are arbitrary and can be changed as needed. Show where the cycling rules have changed during the course of this? They haven’t. You go into a sport knowing what the rules are, and if you break them, you deal with the consequences. > [@](#): > > You asked a question and I answered it with an example. And no, the Stanley Cup isn’t taken away from a team where its members are found later to have been using drugs. Nor are their records removed from when they played. Nobody gives a shit what happens in the NHL. It isn’t even comparable to cycling, where your wins ARE taken away if you are caught cheating. > [@](#): > > Hey, whatever. Keep a minor sport looking even more stupid than it already is. Track down the ne’r do wells even after they are in the grave for all I care. If you don’t give a shit about the sport, or their attempts to keep people from cheating to win, why do you keep arguing vehemently on the side of allowing cheaters to keep winning? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/216 "2012-08-28T13:43:03Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > At the time, players were not allowed to switch nationalities under any circumstances and the IIHF agreed to overturn the result and award the two points to Finland." An excellent example of how the result of taking drugs overturned a game years after the contest was over. Except it wasn’t about drugs or overturned years later. In fact, it was overturned during the midst of a tournament and if it hadn’t been caught at the time, the results would most likely have stood. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/217 "2012-08-28T13:52:13Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Show where the cycling rules have changed during the course of this? They haven’t. You go into a sport knowing what the rules are, and if you break them, you deal with the consequences. I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The rules can be changed as the governing body sees fit. Right now they have decided that a title can be stripped years after the fact. I think that is ridiculous and takes away from the sport itself. I’ve stated an example where a sport doesn’t do that and doesn’t lose anything because of it. > [@](#): > > If you don’t give a shit about the sport, or their attempts to keep people from cheating to win, why do you keep arguing vehemently on the side of allowing cheaters to keep winning? Where did I ever say that? I’m disagreeing with the contention that it makes the sport better, or more valid, or whatever other reason used to justify revisiting results years after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/218 "2012-08-28T14:35:25Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The rules can be changed as the governing body sees fit. Right now they have decided that a title can be stripped years after the fact. I think that is ridiculous and takes away from the sport itself. > I’ve stated an example where a sport doesn’t do that and doesn’t lose anything because of it. > > Where did I ever say that? I’m disagreeing with the contention that it makes the sport better, or more valid, or whatever other reason used to justify revisiting results years after the fact. Then you are missing the point. A free-for-all as long as you don’t get caught _at the time_ absolutely cripples the sport. That’s where the sport was a decade ago and why doping was rampant. Stripping titles isn’t only about setting things right in the past, it’s a deterrent to doping right this minute. Knowing that your samples will be retested years later once screening methods catch up to doping techniques is meant to clean up the sport now. If you dope today you risk being caught in the future and known as a cheat instead of a winner. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/219 "2012-08-28T14:57:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Marion Jones was stripped of her 2000 Olympic Gold medals after admitting to steroid use in 2007. And she went to JAIL! For lying under oath iirc… ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/220 "2012-10-10T23:23:08Z")
I think the lines have already been drawn and there won’t be anything that will convince Armstrong’s supporters of his guilt, but the USADA released its [Reasoned Decision](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/!invesitgations%20and%20enterprise%20docs/armstrong-reasoned-decision.pdf) on Lance Armstrong. It’s a big document with a ton of evidence if anyone is interested in the actual facts of the case, it’s mostly laid out there, including the steps he took to intimidate witnesses against him. I think it makes it pretty damn clear that Armstrong is a lying piece of shit who doped his way through his career. Again, not that it will matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447.md?page=12)