# Lance Armstrong giving up the fight vs. USADA, may be stripped of his titles **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 24, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447 "2012-08-24T02:49:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/241 "2012-10-17T17:50:44Z")
He’s also stepping down as chairman of the Livestrong org. ---
**Author:** ![Shearer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@Shearer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shearer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/242 "2012-10-17T18:01:41Z")
Not long now until the “I’ve found God” confession on Oprah. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/243 "2012-10-17T18:38:53Z")
I’m sure I’ve said this before somewhere, but I sincerely believe in my heart of hearts that, if a man comes through stage three testicular cancer, he thereafter should get a pass on any PEDs he can get his hands on. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/244 "2012-10-17T18:53:34Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I’m sure I’ve said this before somewhere, but I sincerely believe in my heart of hearts that, if a man comes through stage three testicular cancer, he thereafter should get a pass on any PEDs he can get his hands on. What about bullying teammates into using PEDs, launching defamation lawsuits against people guilty only of telling the truth about his doctors, slandering and harassing and threatening those people, and generally behaving like a mafia don? Should he get a pass on all that too? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/245 "2012-10-17T19:04:43Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I’m sure I’ve said this before somewhere, but I sincerely believe in my heart of hearts that, if a man comes through stage three testicular cancer, he thereafter should get a pass on any PEDs he can get his hands on. Does it make any difference if, as is now being suggested, the testicular cancer was _caused_ by the PEDs? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/246 "2012-10-17T19:05:56Z")
Has Matthew McConaughey dumped him as his shirtless running partner yet? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/247 "2012-10-17T19:43:24Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > What about bullying teammates into using PEDs, launching defamation lawsuits against people guilty only of telling the truth about his doctors, slandering and harassing and threatening those people, and generally behaving like a mafia don? Should he get a pass on all that too? Behaving like a mafia Don? Lance Armstrong has had people killed? First I’ve heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/248 "2012-10-17T23:49:02Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Behaving like a mafia Don? Lance Armstrong has had people killed? First I’ve heard of it. Nice dodge, I’m most [impressed](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hyperbole&l=1). ---
**Author:** ![Josh\_Winepuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4da419/32.png) [@Josh\_Winepuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Josh_Winepuck)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/249 "2012-10-18T01:57:34Z")
Just watched The World According to Lance on Four Corners here in Australia: [Four Corners - ABC News](http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm) Fascinating how a man can lie through his teeth and still keep a straight face. Would love to hear a psychologist’s assessment of him. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/250 "2012-10-18T02:13:16Z")
Trek drops Lance. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/251 "2012-10-18T02:36:46Z")
> [@Josh\_Winepuck](#): > > Just watched The World According to Lance on Four Corners here in Australia: [Four Corners - ABC News](http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm) > > Fascinating how a man can lie through his teeth and still keep a straight face. Would love to hear a psychologist’s assessment of him. Mark Twain once observed that it’s easier to fool a man than it is to convince him he was fooled in the first place. Forget the psychologist’s assessment of Armstrong. I’m more concerned about the millions of people who STILL revere him as some sort of religious cancer deity. Some very alarming figures are starting to come out with regards to the Lance Armstrong Foundation, but I digress. If you’re a Lance unbeliever and you find yourself in a supposedly “rational debate” with a Lance TRUE BELIEVER? Watch how quickly it degenerates into a bitter personal arguement with fireworks exactly identical to the fireworks you see in a heated religious arguement between a non believer and a true believer. It’s uncanny. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/252 "2012-10-18T02:39:39Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I’m sure I’ve said this before somewhere, but I sincerely believe in my heart of hearts that, if a man comes through stage three testicular cancer, he thereafter should get a pass on any PEDs he can get his hands on. I guess I’ve heard stupider things. I guess. How exactly do you see this working? Do all endurance sports just become contests between stage three testicular cancer survivors? Because let’s face it if they are allowed any PED’s they can get their hands on, no one else is going to stand a chance. Is this going to be open, so that all the other non-stage three testicular cancer survivors know there is no point in them turning up to race? Does the TdF just become a race for stage three testicular cancer survivors? Or is this done on the quiet, as LA did it, with all the other competitors believing they stand a chance when actually they are just there as cannon fodder to make up the numbers and get blown away by the stage three testicular cancer survivors? Do please enlighten me on how this is going to work in practice, I think your attempt at an explanation should be most [del]amusing[/del] interesting. Or are you just desperately trying to find some way to justify the behaviour of a lying, cheating scumbag, any way you can, because you just can’t let go of the notion he was some sort of hero? They say the three stages of grief are denial, anger and acceptance. You seem to be on the first stage, still. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/253 "2012-10-18T03:02:43Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I’m sure I’ve said this before somewhere, but I sincerely believe in my heart of hearts that, if a man comes through stage three testicular cancer, he thereafter should get a pass on any PEDs he can get his hands on. I wasn’t aware that surviving cancer was a license to cheat. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/254 "2012-10-18T06:38:30Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Really, it’s obvious that the best equipment, the best trainers, the best doctors, and hiring the best athletes, all of which cost money, will give a team the edge over the competition. And? Being born tall, strong fast and in a social class with access to youth sports programs also gives you an edge. No-one is arguing that you can ever create an entirely level playing field. But that does not mean you just throw your hands up in the air and let anything go. It’s a sport. It has rules. To compete at that sport, you follow those rules - otherwise you’re not eligible. If you don’t like those rules, pick a different sport. This shouldn’t be a hard concept to follow. If you don’t like the rules, pick a different sport, or with your fellow competitors and fans lobby to get the rules changed. Don’t just assume certain rules should not apply to you as a competitor, or the person you support as a fan. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/255 "2012-10-18T07:04:36Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > And? > > Being born tall, strong fast and in a social class with access to youth sports programs also gives you an edge. No-one is arguing that you can ever create an entirely level playing field. But that does not mean you just throw your hands up in the air and let anything go. > > It’s a sport. It has rules. To compete at that sport, you follow those rules - otherwise you’re not eligible. If you don’t like those rules, pick a different sport. > > This shouldn’t be a hard concept to follow. If you don’t like the rules, pick a different sport, or with your fellow competitors and fans lobby to get the rules changed. Don’t just assume certain rules should not apply to you as a competitor, or the person you support as a fan. The problem with that is that he didn’t break the rules. As I stated above, if they provide a test, and he passed that test, and he did not do anything to manipulate that test, then, by any reasonable measure, he did not cheat. You can’t have a rule saying someone can’t do something if you have no way of checking to see if they’ve done it. That’s how rules work. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/256 "2012-10-18T07:10:45Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You have the wrong end of the stick. It’s not that you are allowed to get up to 50% and that doing so by any means available is not cheating. You aren’t allowed to dope to increase your haematocrit at all. It’s just that being over 50% results in an automatic suspension. And, again, my point is that a rule that cannot be enforced is not a rule. And that it’s ridiculous to punish someone after the fact, unless your tests screwed up. It’s like an _ex post facto_ law. ---
**Author:** ![Josh\_Winepuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4da419/32.png) [@Josh\_Winepuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Josh_Winepuck)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/257 "2012-10-18T07:29:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The problem with that is that he didn’t break the rules. As I stated above, if they provide a test, and he passed that test, and he did not do anything to manipulate that test, then, by any reasonable measure, he did not cheat. You can’t have a rule saying someone can’t do something if you have no way of checking to see if they’ve done it. That’s how rules work. Even though he tested positive twice? That counts as breaking the rules to me. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/258 "2012-10-18T07:47:27Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > It’s a sport. It has rules. To compete at that sport, you follow those rules - otherwise you’re not eligible. If you don’t like those rules, pick a different sport. Yes, it’s a sport. It has rules, but is still **just** a sport, a game eg. not important. People take this stuff way to seriously. You want rules in place, then make sure they are enforceable when the sport actually occurs. Otherwise, fix what problems you can and get on with it. Stop clogging up the airwaves with drama over the unimportant. > [@](#): > > Don’t just assume certain rules should not apply to you as a competitor, or the person you support as a fan. Hey, don’t get the idea I support any particular athlete especially in a sport I find as exciting to watch as nose picking. Of course, the outtakes of riders piling into each other is rather entertaining, but not worth the effort or time to watch the actual race. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/259 "2012-10-18T08:37:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The problem with that is that he didn’t break the rules. As I stated above, if they provide a test, and he passed that test, and he did not do anything to manipulate that test, then, by any reasonable measure, he did not cheat. You can’t have a rule saying someone can’t do something if you have no way of checking to see if they’ve done it. That’s how rules work. Of course he broke the rules. Just because he (they) avoided testing positive numerous times doesn’t mean he didn’t break the rules. The rule is that “you are not allowed to use performance enhancing drugs”, it’s not “you are not allowed to be caught using performance enhancing drugs”, that’s a ridiculous position to take. Is it ok to rob a bank if you can get away with it? > [@Uzi](#): > > Yes, it’s a sport. It has rules, but is still just a sport, a game eg. not important. > People take this stuff way to seriously. You want rules in place, then make sure they are enforceable when the sport actually occurs. Otherwise, fix what problems you can and get on with it. Stop clogging up the airwaves with drama over the unimportant. When companies are paying you millions of dollars to win an event, it is no longer “not important”, we’re not talking about a kids soccer match here. We are talking about a man who defrauded his sponsors to the tune of many millions of dollars. There was an individual sponsor (can’t remember who) that paid five million dollars for one of his Tour deFrance wins. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447/260 "2012-10-18T09:06:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, again, my point is that a rule that cannot be enforced is not a rule. And that it’s ridiculous to punish someone after the fact, unless your tests screwed up. It’s like an _ex post facto_ law. That’s an absurd position to take. Fraud is fraud. There are millions of pounds at stake here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lance-armstrong-giving-up-the-fight-vs-usada-may-be-stripped-of-his-titles/632447.md?page=14)