# "Land of the free, and home of the....", say what now?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [December 29, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633 "2015-12-29T12:01:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/1 "2015-12-29T12:01:08Z")
Let’s review times in the “land of the brave”, shall we?
A majority of Americans would seem to be afraid of:
Universal healthcare (though crippling costs take people’s homes, retirement funds, drive them into bankruptcy, keep them from seeking or getting care when ill, people are shackled to jobs, and are routinely denied the coverage they pay for), because 'Oh my God Socialism! We’ll all end up standing in line for bread! When, in fact it works quite well in most countries, in fact. No standing in line for bread, no socialism. In fact it’s about as socialist as ‘not for profit’ police services, schools and fire stations! And yet they are afraid?
Same sex marriage because it will cause the break down of society as we know it, famlies will crumble, and people will marry toasters and dogs apparently. But mostly, it would seem, because it’s against the Christian God’s laws. In a country without, as dictated by its constitution, a state sanctioned religion! When, again, in fact none of these things have occurred where it has been adopted. And yet they are clearly afraid?
Immigration, in a country built on immigration. They despise their neighbours for illegally entering their country, but have them doing all the dirty work, like picking crops and mowing lawns, that they wouldn’t want their kids to do. They are afraid of them because they will be overwhelmed by numbers. As though this isn’t exactly what their nation was founded on, (ask the First Nation people how they feel about it!) They willingly turn a blind eye to how these people are exploited, pay taxes etc, because they fear them?
They are afraid of abortion. Something that is fully legal in their country. Again because of God’s law, in a nation where church and state are dictated to remain separate in it’s founding documents. It’s legal. The battle was long and hard, but the war was won, for Crikey’s sake. It’s legal and they’re STILL afraid of it?
Gun control, they are afraid of an autocratic government rising to power and they won’t have weapons to defend themselves. Literally thousands of innocents are mowed down in the streets yearly, because anyone can own any number of high powered weapons without restriction almost. How many autocratic powers have arisen in their history? Oh yeah, not a one. Nothing even close. Not a hint of such. And yet they are afraid.
Refugees. Because a terrorist could slip in as a refugee! As yet hasn’t occurred, but it could. So what if the country was built on taking in the huddled masses? This is the twentY first century and America is retreating from one of the things that made it into a great nation. Because they are afraid!
Muslims. That there are exponentially more peace loving Muslims than extremists, not unlike Christianity, matters not a whit. That the persons immigrating are trying to escape the violent extremism matters not. They are afraid of Sharia law, for like how many years now? Heard anyone advocating for its adoption? Tabling a bill perhaps? Me neither, yet they are CLEARLY afraid.
Home of the free, maybe.
Land of the brave? Yeah, I’m not buying that any more.
---
### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/2 "2015-12-29T14:47:27Z")
Not a majority, since many of these never would have happened if they were; it’s just a very vocal minority.
But, yes, Americans are afraid. And the wierd part is that they revel in their fear, and deliberately seek it out and brag to others about it. :rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/3 "2015-12-29T15:02:42Z")
A majority of Americans support SSM. [Link.](http://pollingreport.com/civil.htm)
A majority of Americans support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. [Link.](http://pollingreport.com/immigration.htm)
A majority of Americans support legal abortion. [Link.](http://pollingreport.com/abortion.htm)
A majority of Americans think it is too easy to buy a gun in the US today. [Link.](http://pollingreport.com/guns.htm)
A majority of Americans oppose banning muslims from immigrating to the US. [Link.](http://pollingreport.com/terror.htm)
You’re right about Syrian refugees. I couldn’t find a poll about UHC-- to much about eh ACA, which is not UHC.
Not sure where you get your information, but you’re wrong at least 70% of the time.
---
### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/4 "2015-12-29T15:07:08Z")
Still though, even if you’re right, not actually brave enough to enact any of those things. That’s kinda even sadder don’t you think?
---
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/5 "2015-12-29T15:10:53Z")
I think the OP is missing an important point; not all opposition is based on fear.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/6 "2015-12-29T15:13:34Z")
No, you’re missing the point…fear keeps them from being anything but Brave.
Not even brave enough to do the right thing, like get people health care they need, women access to abortions - which are LEGAL, not brave enough to help desperate refugees.
Because they are afraid!
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/7 "2015-12-29T15:28:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> I think the OP is missing an important point; not all opposition is based on fear.
An even bigger point-- it’s s song, not a documentary. It’s, what is the word they use these days… aspirational.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/8 "2015-12-29T15:35:01Z")
We’re brave enough to live with an out of control health care system, cops with itchy trigger fingers, politicians who have to take off their shoes to count past 11, exploding skateboards, and an economy always on the verge of collapse.
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### Author:  [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/9 "2015-12-29T16:53:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> We’re brave enough to live with an out of control health care system, cops with itchy trigger fingers, politicians who have to take off their shoes to count past 11, exploding skateboards, and an economy always on the verge of collapse.
And as a bonus we tolerate judgmental Canadians pretty well, too.
---
### Author:  [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/10 "2015-12-29T17:04:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> I think the OP is missing an important point; not all opposition is based on fear.
I agree. Fear can certainly play a role (terrorists); but issues of morality are not necessarily or even usually based on fear. I find that a weird concept.
---
### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/11 "2015-12-29T21:23:28Z")
As a country, the U.S. is rich, fat, and happy. We have enough to eat; we have housing; crime is at remarkably low rates; there isn’t a war going on in our midst.
Of course we’re afraid! We’ve got something wonderful, which we don’t want to lose.
If a guy has nothing in his pocket, he can walk down the street with courage, but if he has $750 in his pocket, you bet he’s afraid! And if everyone knows he’s got $750 in his pocket, it’s a damn sight worse!
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/12 "2015-12-29T22:07:43Z")
The song doesn’t say nobody else lives here…
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/13 "2015-12-29T22:10:58Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> They are afraid of abortion. Something that is fully legal in their country. Again because of God’s law, in a nation where church and state are dictated to remain separate in it’s founding documents. It’s legal. The battle was long and hard, but the war was won, for Crikey’s sake. It’s legal and they’re STILL afraid of it?
Whether something is legal or not has nothing to do with whether it conflicts with their religious views.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/14 "2015-12-29T22:13:30Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Gun control, they are afraid of an autocratic government rising to power and they won’t have weapons to defend themselves.
The 2nd Amendment was adopted in 1791. You make it sound like this is new.
---
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/15 "2015-12-29T22:36:54Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> No, you’re missing the point…fear keeps them from being anything but Brave.
>
> Not even brave enough to do the right thing, like get people health care they need, women access to abortions - which are LEGAL, not brave enough to help desperate refugees.
>
> Because they are afraid!
Right. And it’s my fear of the AMA that keeps me from supporting Jenny McCarthy and her brave stance against vaccination.
Sometimes opposition to an idea is based on the belief that the ideas is wrong.
---
### Author:  [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/16 "2015-12-29T22:49:45Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Let’s review times in the “land of the brave”, shall we?
>
> A majority of Americans would seem to be afraid of:
>
> Universal healthcare (though crippling costs take people’s homes, retirement funds, drive them into bankruptcy, keep them from seeking or getting care when ill, people are shackled to jobs, and are routinely denied the coverage they pay for), because 'Oh my God Socialism! We’ll all end up standing in line for bread! When, in fact it works quite well in most countries, in fact. No standing in line for bread, no socialism. In fact it’s about as socialist as ‘not for profit’ police services, schools and fire stations! And yet they are afraid?
>
> Same sex marriage because it will cause the break down of society as we know it, famlies will crumble, and people will marry toasters and dogs apparently. But mostly, it would seem, because it’s against the Christian God’s laws. In a country without, as dictated by its constitution, a state sanctioned religion! When, again, in fact none of these things have occurred where it has been adopted. And yet they are clearly afraid?
>
> Immigration, in a country built on immigration. They despise their neighbours for illegally entering their country, but have them doing all the dirty work, like picking crops and mowing lawns, that they wouldn’t want their kids to do. They are afraid of them because they will be overwhelmed by numbers. As though this isn’t exactly what their nation was founded on, (ask the First Nation people how they feel about it!) They willingly turn a blind eye to how these people are exploited, pay taxes etc, because they fear them?
>
> They are afraid of abortion. Something that is fully legal in their country. Again because of God’s law, in a nation where church and state are dictated to remain separate in it’s founding documents. It’s legal. The battle was long and hard, but the war was won, for Crikey’s sake. It’s legal and they’re STILL afraid of it?
>
> Gun control, they are afraid of an autocratic government rising to power and they won’t have weapons to defend themselves. Literally thousands of innocents are mowed down in the streets yearly, because anyone can own any number of high powered weapons without restriction almost. How many autocratic powers have arisen in their history? Oh yeah, not a one. Nothing even close. Not a hint of such. And yet they are afraid.
>
> Refugees. Because a terrorist could slip in as a refugee! As yet hasn’t occurred, but it could. So what if the country was built on taking in the huddled masses? This is the twentY first century and America is retreating from one of the things that made it into a great nation. Because they are afraid!
>
> Muslims. That there are exponentially more peace loving Muslims than extremists, not unlike Christianity, matters not a whit. That the persons immigrating are trying to escape the violent extremism matters not. They are afraid of Sharia law, for like how many years now? Heard anyone advocating for its adoption? Tabling a bill perhaps? Me neither, yet they are CLEARLY afraid.
>
> Home of the free, maybe.
>
> Land of the brave? Yeah, I’m not buying that any more.
I was going to go thru this point by point but, no offense, your whole post is just overly simplistic, jingoistic, liberal propaganda. Its flaws are all self-evident…
---
### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/17 "2015-12-30T04:09:08Z")
Your underlying, unquestioned assumption that all of these varied political opinions held by millions of people are all motivated by nothing more than simple fear is ludicrously stupid and incredibly childish.
---
### Author:  [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2015, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/18 "2015-12-30T06:50:56Z")
Good old-fashioned left-wing America-bashing.
Rush and co. thank you for their millions.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2015, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/19 "2015-12-30T09:19:05Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> No, you’re missing the point…fear keeps them from being anything but Brave.
>
> \*\*Not even brave enough to do the right thing, like get people health care they need, women access to abortions \*\*- which are LEGAL, not brave enough to help desperate refugees.
>
> Because they are afraid!
You make it sound as if pro-lifers secretly, deep down, \*\*\*want \*\*\*to support abortion, but are too cowardly to do so.
---
### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2015, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/land-of-the-free-and-home-of-the-say-what-now/741633/20 "2015-12-30T09:41:45Z")
By the logic of the OP, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution themselves were documents written based on Americans’ fears. And they were! Fear and bravery can be two sides of the same coin. We fight for democracy because we fear tyranny. We limit government because we fear government overreach. We fear the government’s help because we are brave enough to believe we can support ourselves. Gun ownership is simultaneously based on fear and bravery. Fear because we fear the government and criminals, and bravery because we believe that our first responsibility is to defend ourselves, with the government as backup. Is the President fearful because he has armed bodyguards? Are celebrities? Are we fearful as a society because we let our police have firearms? If not, then how it is any more fearful for average Americans to possess them? If we agree that firearms are necessary for protection of society then we should be able to agree that individuals should possess them and that possession of them doesn’t speak to irrational fear at all, but is in fact an acceptance of responsibility. And isn’t the desire to have government take care of us based on fear that we can’t succeed on our own?
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