Landing a Commerical Jet in Emergency

‘If you can fly a Robinson R-22, you can fly anything!:wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

[sub]No, my chances of landing a heavy in an emergency are virtually nil. But at least I’d be trying before I killed us all! :D[/sub]

NathanForce,

I’m also an airline pilot, and I think in a best case scenario you would have a good shot at surviving, but like “Airplane” the movie it would probably be the worst landing ever :slight_smile:

Here’s the best case - you get into the cockpit, the radios are still properly set up, the autopilot is on, the FMS (flight management system) is programmed with your entire route of flight, the weather at your destination is good. The autopilot will fly the entire flight, including the landing. All you have to do is control the speed, put the flaps and gear down, set the radios, and possibly program the FMS for the approach.

The key to the whole thing is understanding that “Autoland,” although very beneficial, is not at all necessary for the autopilot to land. Most airports with airline service have an ILS (instrument landing system) that will guide a plane to the proper spot on the runway. An autopilot without autoland will hit the runway hard, but it will hit the runway and it will be pointed in the right direction (assuming you find a runway with little or no crosswind). The plane will probably be descending in the neighborhood of 600 feet per minute, or 10 feet per second, which is near the upper limit of what planes are designed for. (some airplanes, like the CRJ, approach nose-down and the autopilot would probably land on the nose gear, snapping it off).

The Flight Simulator experience will be invaluable, not because you will have any talent but because you will understand the vocabulary and the basics. You will understand how to read most of the instruments, you will know radio frequencies and how they work, you will have an understanding of flaps, gear, and how they interact with airspeed, you will know how to read headings and altitudes. You will not at all have any skill at handling the airplane without autopilot, however. You will be capable of receiving instructions from someone on the ground.

Helix - Large airplanes are typically much more stable than small, but the “three minute spiral” is probably correct for a non-pilot trying to handfly one, especially in the clouds. A smart light plane pilot would probably figure it out and eventually be able to maintain straight and level, but I’d give him little to no shot at landing most planes. Airliners are very, very sluggish compared to small props. Every control input needs to be made in advance of when the response is needed and those inputs need to be very gentle.

The school I went to let us play in 727 full motion sims for two years, and it took most pilots a semester or more (about 10 - 15 hours stick time) to be able to fly it. When the plane reacts very slowly to control inputs new pilots tend to put in extra inputs to “speed things up.” When the airplane does respond it moves further than the pilot intended, and the pilot puts in another excessive input to correct. The airplane and the pilot end up out of phase with each other, known as “pilot induced oscillation.” A non pilot would almost certainly kill themselves in an airliner in the clouds if the autopilot were off.

  • Tailwinds

To expand a bit on Tailwinds post… an additional problem is that cockpits are not quite as standardized as people think they are.

As an example, I have been flying small general aviation and ultralights for 10 years now, with several hundred hours in my logbook. And in those airplanes I’m a decent pilot (hey, if I didn’t believe I was above average I wouldn’t have the confidence to lift off, right?).

Now, let’s plunk me down in a modern jet cockpit - um, a brand new 737 let’s say, maybe a 777?

First problem: There’s a whole lot more knobs, buttons, handles and other crap in front of me than I’ve ever seen in my life. Even if I have some idea of what everything is and does, keeping organized and remembering where everything is might be a problem.

Second problem: what I fly does not have an FMS. In fact, it’s doesn’t have GPS. My flying is done with essentially the technology of WWII. Nothing wrong with that - worked darn good in the 1940’s, 50’s, etc. It’s just not what’s being used in the big jets these days, that’s all, and I have zero experience with it. The controls are different than anything I’ve ever used before.

Then there’s the yoke/stick issue – but I’ve flown both so that, at least, I think I could handle but many GA pilots have flown only yokes and a stick controlled jet (aren’t the Airbus jets in that category?) might be a further distraction.

I mean, sure, what you use to point the nose in the desired direction - ailerons, rudder, elevator, etc. - works much the same but there’s so much more to flying than just that… AND there’s the “sluggishness” mentioned. My reactions are attuned to a much different behavior from the machine and will be significantly off from what would be needed.

So… despite being an experienced pilot, if I suddenly DID find myself in charge of a big jet my first choice would be to grab the radio and yell “HELP! I need someone to tell me how to program this thing for autoland!” Trying to hand-fly a big jet to a landing would be my LAST choice - because I’m experienced enough in flying in general to have some idea of just what a horrible situation that would be. My experience in actual flight will be of limited use in that situation… even more limited would be PC-based flight sim experience, which isn’t sufficient to allow to you safely operate even the most simple airplane I fly.

Now… lets get back to those flight sim programs… IF you happened to play with a flight sim with a half-way accurate respresentation of the cockpit layout it would be of assistance in identifying the radio by which you call for assistance in programing the autoland in the FMS, and identifying other controls. And maybe you’ll know the proper name for everything. And that’s about it.

But like everyone says - if you DID find yourself in that situation have a go at it anyway, since it’s not like you have anything to lose by trying.

Good pilots do not steer ships, they ‘position’ them.
Good pilots do not fly large jets, they ‘position’ them.
Large airplanes fly like a fully loaded Piper Apache on one engine or like an 85 HP fully loaded Swift in Oklahoma in the Summer time. (sorta)

Perspective is very different going from small cockpit to large.

Being at 30,000’ compared to 10,000’ makes a big difference. Ask how many of the Big Iron boys want to hand fly straight and level for an hour at altitude?

Very few General Aviation pilots get to even mess with a full simulator. $$$$

Some of us old 10,000+ hour workin pilots, where the biggest - hottest thing we have ever flown is a Shorts Skyvan or an old Ted Smith Aero Star, but have many hours hand flying old worn out stuff through the clouds at night in the winter and sliding down the ILS with wings misshapen by ice, have surprised a few folks on how well they have done with their first ever Big Iron.

Thankfully, the need does not happen often enough to give real meaningful numbers as to what can / can not be done.

In all of aviation history, the number of times a functional airliner ( much less one in the jet age ) has been rendered crew-less with an very experienced general aviation pilot aboard and good weather to a suitable airport with an experienced Big Iron pilot available to help talk through the poor soul who is up here wishin he was down there, plus had enough fuel and no dying passengers so as to make an immediate arrival a real need, happened so as to firmly establish the real ‘can it be done’ nature of the question.

There is always exceptions… Harmless thing to discuss though. Might interest more folks into learning to fly and that is mostly a good thing.

YMMV

I’m not aware that it’s *ever * happened other than in a hijack. Does anyone know for sure?

You can observe automobile drivers and still say this? :wink:

The Darwinian aspect to aviation is such that if the majority of automobile drivers took up flying, in short order the only folks remaining would be those with some modicum of common sense and intelligence. I would, however, suggest remaing indoors until the aluminum hailstorm subsides - probably a week or so.