# Landlord refuses to repair central heater - Please look at this letter. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078 "2011-11-16T00:33:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/1 "2011-11-16T00:33:57Z")
Hey all, I’m having some trouble with my landlord. I was gonna send him this letter, but figured I’d run it past you guys first. I am aware that nobody on this board is my attorney, and that nobody is offering me legal advice. I mostly want help with the wording. > [@](#): > > November 15, 2011 > Sent via Registered & Certified Mail > [Owner of Property] > [Owner’s Son/Manager] > XXXXXX > Los Angeles, CA 9XXXX > Dear Sirs, > As you know, we rent an apartment from you at [Our Address]. We have rented from you since July 8, 2010. > > In late winter/early spring of 2011, we notified you verbally that the central heating had stopped working. You sent a repairman out, and he examined the heating/air conditioning unit. The repairman told [Husband] that we should not use the heater, as it is unsafe. When we discussed it with you, you said that he had told you that the entire heating/AC unit needed to be replaced, since it was so old that replacement parts were unavailable. Because the air conditioning unit still worked, you said you didn’t want to do that, and offered to reimburse us for the cost of electric space heaters instead. > > At that point, the weather was warming, and we had already borrowed electric space heaters from a friend, so we didn’t take you up on the offer. However, as it is now November, it becomes an issue again. [Husband] asked what the status was on the heater repair when he dropped off the rent on November 7th, and you again offered to reimburse us up to $100 to buy space heaters. > > Unfortunately, this is not an acceptable long-term solution. Per the California Civil Code: > > **1941.1. A dwelling shall be deemed untenantable for purposes of > Section 1941 if it substantially lacks any of the following > affirmative standard characteristics or is a residential unit > described in Section 17920.3 or 17920.10 of the Health and Safety > Code:** > (a) Effective waterproofing and weather protection of roof and > exterior walls, including unbroken windows and doors. > (b) Plumbing or gas facilities that conformed to applicable law in > effect at the time of installation, maintained in good working > order. > (c) A water supply approved under applicable law that is under the > control of the tenant, capable of producing hot and cold running > water, or a system that is under the control of the landlord, that > produces hot and cold running water, furnished to appropriate > fixtures, and connected to a sewage disposal system approved under > applicable law. > \*\* (d) Heating facilities that conformed with applicable law at the > time of installation, maintained in good working order.\*\* > (e) Electrical lighting, with wiring and electrical equipment that > conformed with applicable law at the time of installation, > maintained in good working order. > (f) Building, grounds, and appurtenances at the time of the > commencement of the lease or rental agreement, and all areas under > control of the landlord, kept in every part clean, sanitary, and free > from all accumulations of debris, filth, rubbish, garbage, rodents, > and vermin. > (g) An adequate number of appropriate receptacles for garbage and > rubbish, in clean condition and good repair at the time of the > commencement of the lease or rental agreement, with the landlord > providing appropriate serviceable receptacles thereafter and being > responsible for the clean condition and good repair of the > receptacles under his or her control. > (h) Floors, stairways, and railings maintained in good repair. > (i) A locking mail receptacle for each residential unit in a > residential hotel, as required by Section 17958.3 of the Health and > Safety Code. This subdivision shall become operative on July 1, 2008 > > Electric space heaters are not installed facilities, and do not conform with applicable law (ie, they would not be permitted as the heating source in new construction). Please see attached printouts for confirmation of this from landlord/tenant attorneys. Space heaters are also a fire hazard, and use of them to thoroughly heat the XXX square-foot, two-bedroom apartment would raise our electric bill astronomically. > > Per the County of Los Angeles Department of Consumer Affairs, a broken heater during the winter constitutes an urgent repair, which must be performed quickly. (See attached printout.) Please fulfill your legal obligation and have the broken and dangerous central heating system repaired within 30 days. > Thank you very much, > > Me > Husband > > Enclosures: > County of Los Angeles Dept of Consumer Affairs Information Sheet: Repairs > ([http://dca.lacounty.gov/tsResidentialRepair.html](http://dca.lacounty.gov/tsResidentialRepair.html)) > A Cave by Any Other Name > ([http://www.tenantstogether.org/article.php?id=844](http://www.tenantstogether.org/article.php?id=844)) > Law Guru: California Landlord & Tennant Law > ([My tenants are claiming that no | Legal Advice](https://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-landlord-tenant/tenants-claiming-attached-heaters-apt-489720225/a)) I was thinking of adding something in there reassuring them that we do not want to move and do not want to press things any further if at all possible; we just want to not have to wear sweaters indoors. I’m not sure where to put it, though, and I don’t want it to seem like I’m threatening them. My goal is to get through the winter in the same apartment, without my rent being jacked through the roof in retaliation, and with the freaking heating fixed. Thanks, MtO ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/2 "2011-11-16T00:47:51Z")
I’d cut out the per CA code part, including the code. but that’s a calculation made depending on your needs. At the point where you start throwing law at him you’re coming off as hostile and they may just work against you. Just letting them know you personally don’t find space heaters acceptable might be enough to get the ball rolling. If they still don’t react you then throw the law at them. I tend to escalate in steps, with multiple documented interactions, then if you find yourself in front of a magistrate you can confidently say you made every effort to be reasonable, and have supporting documentation to show it. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/3 "2011-11-16T00:49:42Z")
Other notes: While we’ve only been there a year and some, we have been pretty darn good tenants. We don’t complain, we’re not noisy, and our rent is always right on time. There was [a dispute fairly early on about the dishwasher](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=577585&highlight=dishwasher), but we wound up eating the costs on that one and not attempting to get any of the money back from it. We had a 1-year lease, which has since transmuted to month-to-month. Anyway, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/4 "2011-11-16T00:57:47Z")
Have you verbally told him that the space heater option isn’t acceptable for the winter? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/5 "2011-11-16T01:12:12Z")
Hm. Husband asked him about it when he dropped off the rent, but I don’t believe he out and out said that the space heater solution isn’t OK. However, because of the problems with not getting things in writing in the Aforementioned Dishwasher Incident, I’d like to have as much of the conversation as possible in writing. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/6 "2011-11-16T01:15:26Z")
Even reading my post may cause trouble… but… what happens if you call the city & tell them that your landlord is refusing to provide you with a working heater (aka: heat) in November? YMMV (ev state is different) but won’t some will hit him/her with fines that exceed the cost of a new furnace/boiler? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/7 "2011-11-16T01:17:54Z")
Well, I’d say going from being ok with a situation for months to threatening letters is a bit of a dick move. I’d call and talk with him first. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/8 "2011-11-16T01:19:01Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Even reading my post may cause trouble… but… what happens if you call the city & tell them that your landlord is refusing to provide you with a working heater (aka: heat) in November? > > YMMV (ev state is different) but won’t some will hit him/her with fines that exceed the cost of a new furnace/boiler? If necessary, we can do that - but I’d really rather not go there this quickly. If he proposes something reasonable (for example, if he can’t afford to replace the heater, then discounting our rent by $100/mo for the winter + paying for multiple space heaters + promising in writing to have it fixed by 10/1/12 would be fine.) ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/9 "2011-11-16T01:33:24Z")
Okay…I’ve reduced the Legal Code bit to just the bolded items, with elipses to indicate the rest. What do you think about this change to the final paragraph, to soften things a little (Bolded section is new): > [@](#): > > Per the County of Los Angeles Department of Consumer Affairs, a broken heater during the winter constitutes an urgent repair, which must be performed quickly. (See attached printout.) Please fulfill your legal obligation and have the broken and dangerous central heating system repaired within 30 days. **This is our first choice of solutions; however, we know that even with almost a year’s notice, it is a not-inconsiderable expense. If you are not able to get the repair completed in this timeframe, please contact us with a plan for short- and long- term solutions to the problem. We very much like living in this apartment, and sincerely intend to continue here for many years.** > > Thank you very much, ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/10 "2011-11-16T01:33:30Z")
I agree that citing the laws at this stage is a bit premature; your goal at this point (I assume) is getting your furnace fixed. I agree that doing this by writing is a good idea, since your landlord has proved that you need to take that step. I’ve taken the liberty of re-writing your letter without citing the laws and softening it a bit, but still making it clear what you expect: > [@](#): > > November 15, 2011 > Sent via Registered & Certified Mail > [Owner of Property] > [Owner’s Son/Manager] > XXXXXX > Los Angeles, CA 9XXXX > Dear Sirs, > As you know, we rent an apartment from you at [Our Address]. We have rented from you since July 8, 2010. > > In early spring of 2011, we notified you verbally that the central heating had stopped working. You sent a repairman out, and he examined the heating/air conditioning unit. The repairman told [Husband] that we should not use the heater, as it is unsafe. When we discussed it with you, you said that he told you that the entire heating/AC unit needed to be replaced, since it was so old that replacement parts were unavailable. Because the air conditioning unit still worked, you said you didn’t want to do that, and offered to reimburse us for the cost of electric space heaters instead. > > At that point, the weather was warming, and we had already borrowed electric space heaters from a friend, so we didn’t take you up on the offer. However, as it is now November, it has become an issue again. [Husband] asked what the status was on the heater repair when he dropped off the rent on November 7th, and you again offered to reimburse us up to $100 to buy space heaters. > > Unfortunately, this is not an acceptable long-term solution. > > Electric space heaters are not installed facilities, and do not conform with applicable law (ie, they would not be permitted as the heating source in new construction). Space heaters are also a fire hazard, and to use them to thoroughly heat the XXX square-foot, two-bedroom apartment would raise our electric bill significantly. > > Per the County of Los Angeles Department of Consumer Affairs, a broken heater during the winter constitutes an urgent repair, which must be performed quickly. We would appreciate having the broken central heater fixed as soon as possible. > Thank you very much, > > Me > Husband ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/11 "2011-11-16T02:11:33Z")
I dunno if your city has a moderately friendly inspections department. If they do, alert them and maybe they’ll drop by and issue him a work order with a deadline to avoid a citation (which in some of our localities is a Misdemeanor citation against the owner). And then check your other laws, because in other jurisdictions I have lived in, you are allowed to make the repairs and then deduct them from your rent if the landlord fails to make them within a certain period of time. In one past apartment I lived in, the disposal didn’t work for like six months, and the landlord kept ignoring my requests to get it fixed. So I let them know that I was going to have it fixed by N date and deduct it from my rent under Law X. It was fixed within a week after that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/12 "2011-11-16T02:18:46Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Well, I’d say going from being ok with a situation for months to threatening letters is a bit of a dick move. I’d call and talk with him first. As a landlord, I concur. But then I borrowed $4000 to replace the A/C furnace when it failed. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/13 "2011-11-16T02:28:25Z")
[Eddie Murphy] C-I-L-L my landlord [/Eddie Murphy] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/14 "2011-11-16T02:30:30Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > [Eddie Murphy] > > C-I-L-L my landlord > > [/Eddie Murphy] Well, gee, thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/15 "2011-11-16T02:36:59Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Well, I’d say going from being ok with a situation for months to threatening letters is a bit of a dick move. What? The OP didn’t complain about the lack of heat during the summer in Los Angeles? I think that if the situation was brought up last winter, the beginning of the next winter is a perfectly appropriate time to begin threatening letters. The landlord has, after all, had months to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/16 "2011-11-16T02:43:52Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I think that if the situation was brought up last winter, the beginning of the next winter is a perfectly appropriate time to begin threatening letters. The landlord has, after all, had months to fix it. Yes, but if he is that much of a dick, threats are just going to piss him off. Talk to him first. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/17 "2011-11-16T02:52:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Yes, but if he is that much of a dick, threats are just going to piss him off. So what? ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/18 "2011-11-16T03:14:49Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > So what? Because the landlord is in a position of power here? He can terminate the now-month-to-month arrangement or raise the rent as much as legally allowable to get rid of a bothersome tenant. **Maggie the Ocelot** , I liked your second “softened” version without the legal chapter and verse; I think it strikes the right note. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/19 "2011-11-16T03:22:20Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What? The OP didn’t complain about the lack of heat during the summer in Los Angeles? The OP knew about the situation, and made it seem like they were fine using space heaters for the winter. If they weren’t ok with the deal proposed many months ago, they should have made it known then. Sitting on something for months and then demanding urgent repairs qualifies as a dick move. So does sending a threatening letter without picking up the phone and calling them first. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078/20 "2011-11-16T03:22:59Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Because the landlord is in a position of power here? He’s got laws to follow. If he won’t follow those laws, and gets pissed off, fuck him. Find somewhere else to rent. Where’s the power? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-refuses-to-repair-central-heater-please-look-at-this-letter/603078.md?page=2)