# Landlord/Tenant Question. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 29, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709 "2011-05-29T23:07:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/81 "2011-05-31T03:37:55Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > But you _are_ a law student, as I recall. Does a landlord who suffers the creation of a subtenancy have the right to eject the subtenant at will? Identify the privities that exist in such a situation. I am. I am not an American law student. I am also halfway through real property and have not covered leases yet. I was trying to think of it in a contractual manner. However, I’ll have a potentially embarrassing crack at it. The agreement is between herself (L) and her Tenant (T). Therefore the subleasor (S) does not have privity in that agreement. L and S have no agreement with each other. T and S have an agreement with each other. We are not privy to the agreement between L and T, and thus the assumption will be made that there is no positive prohibition of subletting, or that the agreement is silent on subletting, and that L had notice of S at some past date, which seems to be the case on the facts (five years ago you damaged the bathroom). Further, the matter is complicated as 1.) as the agreements are oral agreements, and therefore may not be enforceable in law (although equity may assist, as in estoppel) and 2.) it appears to be an ‘at will’ tenancy, and not a term. L & T have privity of contract (Beswick v Beswick) and privity of estate. L, in equity, as she had notice, also has privity of estate between T and S, although not privity of contract. I say this knowing that there is a common law requirement for T not to derogate from grant - and no permission was granted to sublease. Warren v Keen [1954] 1 QB 15. However, since she had notice and did nothing for many years, equity would say that now she has obligations to S, as equity aids the viligant, and not those who slumber on their rights. The law cited in this thread says that since she did suffer the tenancy (presuming notice of it), she may evict on 60 days notice for any of the reasons given. One of those reasons was ‘non-payment of rent’. Thus, if she can prove non-payment of rent, none of this actually matters. The OP claims his rent is paid. If he can prove this, he should win. Thus, to answer your questions: 1. In equity, the landlord does not have such a right, but in law it appears in this case she does - and equity follows the law. In this case, however, there are not enough facts to make a positive conclusions, and; 2. The privity that exists between the landlord and subtenant in this instance is the privity of estate. There is no privity of contract as there is no contract between them. This is the best answer I can give you away from my notes in 20 minutes at my lunch hour. 🙂 I made no guess as to the matter of discrimination, and continue not to do so, but it would be a matter the OP might raise to a tribunal of fact if in fact he has paid his rent and if the matter goes that far. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/82 "2011-05-31T03:56:14Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I am a commercial real estate agent, NAL, but the short answer for commercial real estate is “no”. That’s one of the reasons many of the sub-tenancy clauses in the commercial leases I use emphasize that a landlord MUST approve all sub-tenancies in writing or they are considered to be in violation of the lease. Check you [Rule in Dumpor’s Case](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_in_Dumpor%27s_Case)! 😉 Of course, that common law rule pertains to assignments, not subleases (and has also been abrogated by statute in a number of states). The difference between subleases and assignments depends on whether the original tenant has any interest remaining in the leasehold after the sublease/assignment. In a sublease, the original tenant will retake the leasehold, however briefly. In an assignment, the entirety of the remaining lease passes to the assignee. The changes the privities involved (privity of contract and privity of estate), which, not unimportantly, has consequences regarding from whom the landlord can seek remedies for breach/non-performance of the lease. (You can see why I reserved this question for a lawyer-in-training. **Gleena** , of course, can pass on answering if she wants; it was just a little free, impromptu bar review.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/83 "2011-05-31T04:31:35Z")
> [@Gleena](#): > > This is the best answer I can give you away from my notes in 20 minutes at my lunch hour. 🙂 Not bad. Noting that the ten-year lease was oral one and therefore not enforceable under the Statute of Frauds since it (1) conveys an interest in real property and (2) cannot be fully performed in under one year is a good catch. I think you’re right that equity will bar the landlord’s asserting SoF as a defense, but I think there can be no privity of contract absent an enforceable contract. But not bad at all. Especially for someone who hasn’t covered landlord-tenant yet! ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/84 "2011-05-31T07:48:10Z")
Today, May 30, 2011 my landlord talk with my roommate and I guess she is getting cold feet the closer June 30, 2011 is getting here. My roommate told me the landlord does not want to have to evict me. Talking with my roommate it sounds like the landlord was mainly using threaten reasons and hope that I would move out on my own. This however, does not mean she want go through with the eviction but I believe she knows what she was doing was not legal. Today, I reread my original leading thread and I did not mention one key fact and I am suprised no one didn’t bring it to my attention especially since everyone has now gotten so far off track. For example now somone has posted I have a substance abuse problem. Like the one moderator said in the beginning a lot of people give answers and do not know what there talking about. What I left out was “During my hosptial admission my roommate told the landlord where I was and why I was in the hospital.” That is how the landlord found out. Therefore, She high tailed to my residence on March24, 2011 7 days after I was discharged. Came in the house left wrote the letter dated March 28, 2011 which I received on April 2, 2011. Alice in wonder land figured this out without all the details. My friends if you do not know what housing discrimination is then you should not be responding with just a “opinion.” You are actually doing more harm than good. I am going to wait before I do anything with the landlord until she receives the housing discrimination complaint from HUD. With what my roommate told me today her blood pressure should rise very rapidly and the phone just might start ringing. Then I will be in control of this run away train. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/85 "2011-05-31T07:53:03Z")
A few things: First: legal advice you get on the internet is worth pretty much exactly what you pay for it. Second: what that means, really, is that you’re mostly going to get opinions. Third: if people have “gotten so far off track” in this thread, it’s largely because you did such a shitty job of providing details about your situation. Your OP, and the posts since, have been so full of ambiguity and poor description that i still don’t really know what the hell is your exact situation is. If you want people you advise you to the best of their ability, make a better effort to explain your situation much more clearly. ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/86 "2011-05-31T07:58:32Z")
How quickly the facts I listed got lost in this thread. A oral agrement is just as binding as a written agreement in California. All my rent has been paid. Never late in 6 years. No I am not a subtenant. “Non-rent paying occupant in my house” is the language used by my landlord which is a false statement by her. Look my friends, I fought in combat for the freedom everyone of you have to bang on your keyboards. No where at anytime have I played my “disablity” to win anyone over. In fact I refuse to talk about my disability and stick with stating facts. So everyone should not worry or try to figure out what my disability is other than the fact that I am “A Disabled Veteran whos suffered multipile injuries in combat.” ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/87 "2011-05-31T08:03:41Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > A few things: > > First: legal advice you get on the internet is worth pretty much exactly what you pay for it. > > Second: what that means, really, is that you’re mostly going to get opinions. > > Third: if people have “gotten so far off track” in this thread, it’s largely because you did such a shitty job of providing details about your situation. Your OP, and the posts since, have been so full of ambiguity and poor description that i still don’t really know what the hell is your exact situation is. > > If you want people you advise you to the best of their ability, make a better effort to explain your situation much more clearly. My uncle taught me along time ago never use fowl language in a conversation with anyone. Then he said however, if they used fowl language first then it means they will not be offended if you use the same language in responding to them. Dude “Fuck you” and the horse you rode in on ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/88 "2011-05-31T08:09:32Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > A few things: > > First: legal advice you get on the internet is worth pretty much exactly what you pay for it. > > Second: what that means, really, is that you’re mostly going to get opinions. > > Third: if people have “gotten so far off track” in this thread, it’s largely because you did such a shitty job of providing details about your situation. Your OP, and the posts since, have been so full of ambiguity and poor description that i still don’t really know what the hell is your exact situation is. > > If you want people you advise you to the best of their ability, make a better effort to explain your situation much more clearly. There 87 threads in this post. I have only made 14 now 15 myself. So you and some of the 71 one others started your own thread within a thread… Dip Shit ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/89 "2011-05-31T08:09:39Z")
Yeah, that’s gonna help. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/90 "2011-05-31T08:10:16Z")
> [@RADTENN](#): > > My uncle taught me along time ago never use fowl language in a conversation with anyone. Then he said however, if they used fowl language first then it means they will not be offended if you use the same language in responding to them. Cluck, cluck! (sorry, couldn’t resist) ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/91 "2011-05-31T08:22:16Z")
> [@Gleena](#): > > Just for clarification: > > 1. Your oral agreement is with your roommate, and not the landlord, correct? > > 2. Your roommate has the oral agreement with the landlord, correct? > > 3. You pay rent to your roommate, and your roommate pays rent to the landlord, right? > > If this is so, then your agreement is not with the property owner, and it seems to me she does have the right to evict you with notice as required by law, which she has given, for any reason or no reason. She then would not enjoy this sort of protection with your roommate, who has an agreement directly with her. > > ETA: This may be the basis of her ‘non-rent paying’ claim. The OP is not paying rent TO HER, but to his roommate. > IANAL. 1. I stated very clearly I have a oral agreement with the landlord 2. Roommate also has oral agreement with landlord 3. I pay rent to the landlord. Instead of 2 trips or 2 mailed letters the roommate gets the rent to the landlord 4. Again, this staement is a lie by the landlord ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/92 "2011-05-31T08:31:43Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I don’t know if HUD is only looking at your affirmative claim or is also looking at your unlawful detainer defense. > > In Sacramento County, where I practice law, our unlawful detainer (UD) courthouse has a free HUD UD clinic inside. > > If your current HUD office is only looking at your affirmative claim, then you might call your local UD courthouse and ask if they have a free UD clinic. You might also try the [Legal Aid Society of San Diego](http://www.lassd.org/housing.htm) and/or the local law schools for other clinics. > > DISCLAIMER: The above is not legal advice nor does it establish an attorney-client relationship with anyone. There is no attorney-client relationship between any reader and this writer or her firm. These comments are not subject to any privilege protections. They are neither privileged nor confidential. HUD has no legal right to get involved concerning the eviction. I post very early within this thread that very fact. Once the landlord has the valid complaint in her possession the landlord can still evict me. However, by the landlord evicting me it does not stop the charges of housing discrimination by HUD. The landlord will suffer a greater lose in punitive damages if she evicts me knowing there is a legal binding charge of housing discrimination against her. Will she roll the dice? ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/93 "2011-05-31T08:39:28Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > I’m not sure how the landlord could ding the renters for going against the contract when…there isn’t one. I’m sure an oral one could be proven, but could it be proven that the oral contract contained codecils such as ‘Thou shalt not keep wood in the yard’? That might be tricky. This a very good point you made here. An oral agreement to rent from the landlord is legal and binding. However, when it comes to “the landlord promised me this or that” would not be binding. Nor would the landlord saying “I said you cannot have wood stack in the yard.” ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/94 "2011-05-31T08:39:56Z")
> [@RADTENN](#): > > HUD has no legal right to get involved concerning the eviction. In Sacramento, HUD does not get involved. They advise people on how to handle the case _pro per_. I was suggesting it as a place you might go get free legal counsel. ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/95 "2011-05-31T08:48:03Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Well, there could be mental health issues, diseases of the immune system, chronic communicable diseases etc. that landlords have been known to get bent out of shape about. > > However, I’m not sure the specifics of why she decided she wants him out are really required, as long as he indicates it’s a disability which is protected. Right Here Right Here Right Here Everyone should read what is written right here. This is to the point and stops the run away train of everyone just guessing. It does not matter to anyone else what the disability is because I have said time and again I am a Dsabled Vet. ---
**Author:** ![RADTENN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@RADTENN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RADTENN)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/96 "2011-05-31T08:51:48Z")
I believe it is time to end this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/97 "2011-05-31T08:59:27Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/98 "2011-05-31T11:10:44Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Not bad. Noting that the ten-year lease was oral one and therefore not enforceable under the Statute of Frauds since it (1) conveys an interest in real property and (2) cannot be fully performed in under one year is a good catch. I think you’re right that equity will bar the landlord’s asserting SoF as a defense, but I think there can be no privity of contract absent an enforceable contract. But not bad at all. Especially for someone who hasn’t covered landlord-tenant yet! 🙂 I’m in the weeds with my assignments, behind on my reading and struggling with constitutional characterisation, so believe me when I tell you this made my day! **RADTENN** , I’ll just say I hope it works out for you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/99 "2011-05-31T12:05:16Z")
> [@RADTENN](#): > > My uncle taught me along time ago never use fowl language in a conversation with anyone. Then he said however, if they used fowl language first then it means they will not be offended if you use the same language in responding to them. > > Dude “Fuck you” and the horse you rode in on [Moderator Note]Your uncle does not run this message board. if you have a problem with the way someone is responding you are to notify a moderator-retaliation is _not_ an option here. Take the Pit-worthy responses to the BBQ Pit.[/Moderator Note] ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709/100 "2011-05-31T12:57:27Z")
Well, now that the OP has changed his story to one of being a paid in full legitimate tenant, that changes everything. Too bad he didn’t tell it that way the first time. Now she probably wants him out because she’s tired of dealing with him whining like he’s done here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landlord-tenant-question/583709.md?page=6)