# Landmark Forum **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568 "2019-11-17T05:50:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/1 "2019-11-17T05:50:19Z")
Has anyone heard of this before? I recently got duped into attending one of their intro courses (I didn’t registers since it was 670) and hearing them speak I heard a lot of stuff that sounded fishy or just odd. When they handed me a syllabus of their “course” it read like a lot of other ideas I previously read about but I didn’t have to play 670 dollars for that. So of the things they said sounded deliberately confusing or psychobabble and I listened closely to hear what they meant but it sounded just as foolish as before. I noticed their syllabus mentioned the word freedom like hundreds of times, but every description was trying to get at being unlimited and how we hold ourselves back with the stories we make and the beliefs we hold. I mean that wasn’t really a new concept, being your own worst enemy is a trope as old as time. But sometimes the stories are rooted in truth and evidence and not mistaken beliefs. It just sounded weird. When they took me and the guests into a room and asked us what we wanted I told them I don’t know. When they asked me about a probable almost certain future I said I don’t know, I don’t have a crystal ball. I don’t know what tomorrow may bring. When they asked what possibility I created myself I left it blank and tried to tell them that we don’t have that much control over the future. Something might happen tomorrow that could change everything or maybe factors change years from now. I can’t be sure. All she could say was “I get that” but it sounded like a response people give when you don’t say what they want to hear. I hear them say that being present and letting go of the past allows for infinite possibilities. But that isn’t true. Infinity isn’t a number for one, and second how can there be infinite possibilities of we humans have limited senses and knowledge. All in all the whole thing just raised a lot of flags for me. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/2 "2019-11-17T06:59:00Z")
This does not sound like something you should pursue further. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/3 "2019-11-17T07:19:35Z")
A friend of mine’s mom was into this cult. It was awful. I’m not going to go into details, but it’s not much different from Scientology. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/4 "2019-11-17T09:43:16Z")
Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/5 "2019-11-17T13:42:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I recently got duped into attending one of their intro courses How does something like that happen? I’ve had someone _attempt_ to get me to listen to their spiel and I walked away. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/6 "2019-11-17T15:47:36Z")
[Landmark Forum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_Worldwide) is an offshoot/rebranding of the EST (Erhard Seminar Training) movement started in the early '70’s. At that time, EST was sometimes ridiculed in popular entertainment due to their model of forcing participants to sit through 4 days of seminars without bathroom breaks, in the pursuit of “breaking them down”. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/7 "2019-11-17T22:26:23Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > How does something like that happen? I’ve had someone _attempt_ to get me to listen to their spiel and I walked away. Well what happened was a coworker of mine said he was gonna hook me up with some of his gay friends. So I he gave me one of their numbers and as we talked he mentioned something about a money seminar, and since I am planning to start accounting I figured it would be good for me. I get there and walk in and I see nothing about money and some super vague stuff about “creating the life you want”. Once it started he (the friend) got up and singled me out with “love bombing” (at least it sounded like it, it was quite enthusiastic for a person I never met before). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/8 "2019-11-17T23:10:01Z")
I have two different friends who are into Landmark. They don’t know each other but I have known them both for many years. Frankly, both of them have lives that are a bit of a mess on and off to say the least. They both, in particular, have had lots of money and employment issues. They are both great people and make for great friends but I can’t see what Landmark has done for them. One common technique is for a friend to invite you and you, of course, turn them down because you don’t want to pay for the seminar. Then they say, “I already paid for you. What do you have to lose?” People who love it swear by it and really want to get others involved. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/9 "2019-11-18T02:29:14Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I have two different friends who are into Landmark. They don’t know each other but I have known them both for many years. Frankly, both of them have lives that are a bit of a mess on and off to say the least. They both, in particular, have had lots of money and employment issues. They are both great people and make for great friends but I can’t see what Landmark has done for them. > > One common technique is for a friend to invite you and you, of course, turn them down because you don’t want to pay for the seminar. Then they say, “I already paid for you. What do you have to lose?” People who love it swear by it and really want to get others involved. The problem is that I was under the impression that it was just me and this guy hanging out, I mean I thought it was odd that it was a money seminar (before I knew what it was) but the thing was that he texted me to bring a friend to what I thought was just me and him, which was odd. I saw the price tag for the program and it was 670, for three days and they don’t feed you. Even listening to some of the people sharing their stories on their sounded unbelievable. One guy said his son was dating a millionare’s daughter, another guy had a dad who “made $10 sales” and an uncle who made “million dollar sales”. It just sounded extremely fishy to me. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/10 "2019-11-18T04:27:36Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It just sounded extremely fishy to me. They’re probably Buddhists. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/11 "2019-11-18T04:42:07Z")
I attended two days of the Landmark Forum introductory stuff, upon the urging of my sister. I would not recommend it. It sounds like a bunch of cliche “achieve what is in your potential and power” and some cliche/meaningless-platitude stuff. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/12 "2019-11-18T05:52:56Z")
It’s a cult. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/13 "2019-11-18T05:56:30Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The problem is that I was under the impression that it was just me and this guy hanging out, I mean I thought it was odd that it was a money seminar (before I knew what it was) but the thing was that he texted me to bring a friend to what I thought was just me and him, which was odd. I saw the price tag for the program and it was 670, for three days and they don’t feed you. Even listening to some of the people sharing their stories on their sounded unbelievable. One guy said his son was dating a millionare’s daughter, another guy had a dad who “made $10 sales” and an uncle who made “million dollar sales”. It just sounded extremely fishy to me. Oh, it is a money seminar. It’s a seminar to brainwash you into you giving them your money. I hate organizations like that. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/14 "2019-11-18T14:47:33Z")
So, is it a cult? Like Scientology? Or is it more like a Tony Robbins style self help guru seminar? Either way, I’m sure it’s a waste of money, but the former seems far more dangerous to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/15 "2019-11-18T15:16:49Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > This does not sound like something you should pursue further. Actually, this could be a _good_ thing. Imagine what happens when **Machinaforce** starts questioning every little thing about Landmark Forum the way he does with Buddhist philosophy. The person trying to drag him into the cult will be driven absolutely insane by this. He could end the whole thing all by himself. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/16 "2019-11-18T17:26:44Z")
Isn’t Landmark the evolution of Werner Erhard’s **est** movement from the 70’s and 80’s? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/17 "2019-11-18T17:45:21Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > When they took me and the guests into a room and asked us what we wanted I told them I don’t know. The correct answer when someone asks you “What do you want?” in this open-ended way is to respond: > [@Vir Cotto](#): > > I’d like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike, as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this. And then of course [demonstrate the little wave](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_5aBnMHwA). ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/18 "2019-11-18T18:12:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Actually, this could be a _good_ thing. Imagine what happens when **Machinaforce** starts questioning every little thing about Landmark Forum the way he does with Buddhist philosophy. The person trying to drag him into the cult will be driven absolutely insane by this. He could end the whole thing all by himself. One on one that might be entertaining. The problem with these cults is they can work you over with waves of cultists. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/19 "2019-11-18T19:37:02Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Isn’t Landmark the evolution of Werner Erhard’s **est** movement from the 70’s and 80’s? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568/20 "2019-11-18T19:46:49Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > The problem is that I was under the impression that it was just me and this guy hanging out, I mean I thought it was odd that it was a money seminar (before I knew what it was) but the thing was that he texted me to bring a friend to what I thought was just me and him, which was odd. I saw the price tag for the program and it was 670, for three days and they don’t feed you. Even listening to some of the people sharing their stories on their sounded unbelievable. One guy said his son was dating a millionare’s daughter, another guy had a dad who “made $10 sales” and an uncle who made “million dollar sales”. It just sounded extremely fishy to me. So you thought it was a date? And it ended up being this? I would be bummed too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/landmark-forum/843568.md?page=2)