# Language Academies **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2002, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528 "2002-06-11T22:19:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gjorp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@Gjorp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gjorp)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/1 "2002-06-11T22:19:22Z")
I know that some European countries have academies that have the authority to dictate their native language. I’m wondering how they do this. I would guess that at the time these academies were founded, they would have no problem with cutting off your head for uttering an incorrect usage, but what about nowadays? Does anyone really listen to the academies anymore? How do they control how you speak an write? My guess is that licences come in here somewhere. Thanx. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/2 "2002-06-12T03:23:17Z")
Well, the most famous one is the Academie Francaise, or French Academy. I wasn’t aware, actually, that any other European countries even _had_ a “language patrol”. France is always the one people are talking about when the subject comes up. As far as “enforcement” goes, I dunno. [http://www.bartleby.com/65/fr/FrenchAc.html](http://www.bartleby.com/65/fr/FrenchAc.html) > [@](#): > > The work of the French Academy has chiefly consisted of the preparation and revision of a dictionary (1st ed. 1694, 9th ed. 1992–) and of a grammar. The very conservative attitude of these books toward orthography, new words, and grammatical development has led to much criticism. The academy, however, has never claimed to legislate but simply to record forms; legislation on orthography and grammar was made a function of the minister of public instruction during the Third Republic. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/3 "2002-06-12T04:04:10Z")
This is slightly different from the Academie, but Quebec has the infamous [Office de la Langue Francaise](http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/english/charter/title5.html). Here are some excerpts: > [@](#): > > [regarding websites] > 3. How does the Office go about enforcing the rules? > > The Office considers that any company with an address in Québec falls under section 52. It is thus accountable for any commercial information posted on its Web site. Moreover, firms employing fifty or more persons must comply with the requirements of a francization programme which includes the use of French in information technologies. Consequently, the absence of French on the Web site of those firms could result in the cancellation or suspension of their francization certificate. > [@](#): > > 1. Every person who contravenes a provision of this Act or the regulations adopted by the Government thereunder commits an offence and is liable > > (a) for each offence, to a fine of $250 to $700 in the case of a natural person, and of $500 to $l,400 in the case of a legal person; > (b) for any subsequent conviction, to a fine of $500 to $1,400 in the case of a natural person, and of $1,000 to $7,000 in the case of an legal person… > > 1. Any court of civil jurisdiction, on a motion by the Attorney General, may order the removal or destruction at the expense of the defendant, within eight days of the judgment, of any poster, sign, advertisement, bill-board or illuminated sign not in conformity with this act… > > 208.2. Where a judgment of guilty become res judicata has been rendered against a person in the employ of a school body who has been convicted of contravening section 78.1, the Attorney General shall notify the school body in writing. > > On receiving the notice, the school body shall suspend that person without pay for six months. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/4 "2002-06-12T07:36:04Z")
I understand that almost every country in Europe, England being the notable exception, has some kind of agency which decrees the correct spelling and perhaps other language issues for their language. However, unlike Quebec, they don’t require businesses to toe the linguistic line. ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/5 "2002-06-12T10:43:07Z")
Has there ever been any successful challenge to the Quebec language laws? It seems contrary to the spirit of free speech, which I understand to be something Canadians hold at least a little dear. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/6 "2002-06-12T12:30:41Z")
On 1 August 1998, there was a major spelling reform in the German language, which made a few changes, simplifying the spelling of some of those lovely compound nouns and cutting down the usage of that funny thing like a beta, amongst other things. The changes were devised by German, Swiss and Austrian working groups, debated, and ratified in 1996 by all German-speaking nations. Government agencies and schools are required to use the new spellings, but there is no requirement on other organisations to make the change. Newspapers started using the new spellings in 1999, although apparently some have since switched back. Public response appears negative in many parts of Germany, with one state, Schleswig-Holstein in the far north, voting against the changes in a referendum. > **[German History and Culture](https://www.thoughtco.com/german-history-and-culture-4133071)** > > Find out how history and culture have influenced the development of the German language, and how speakers from all over the world use German today. [http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/teaching/reform/](http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/teaching/reform/) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/7 "2002-06-12T14:31:08Z")
“Beta”? You must mean the “ess-tset,” or the double-S. It wasn’t a question of “cutting down” its usage, but rather using the ess-set and the “ss” differently to indicate the length of the preceding vowel. I never did understand why the Europeans think that this sort of thing is the business of the government. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/8 "2002-06-12T19:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gjorp \* > \*\*I know that some European countries have academies that have the authority to dictate their native language. I’m wondering how they do this. I would guess that at the time these academies were founded, they would have no problem with cutting off your head for uttering an incorrect usage, but what about nowadays? Does anyone really listen to the academies anymore? How do they control how you speak an write? My guess is that licences come in here somewhere. > > Thanx. \*\* I think it is not the countries per se, but the language…the Academies have their see in the country were the language originated. [Real Academia de la Lengua Española (in Spanish)](http://www.rae.es/) It sets the correct grammar and syntaxis, spelling, and accepts or rejects new words and definitions. It also lists foreign words that should not be used because a word in Spanish already exists for that concept or thing. Also sets the correct number of letters in the alphabet…I still think there is a dispute between people opposing taking the ch and ll from the alphabet and those in favor of it. Each Spanish-speaking country also has a language academy. It sets the correct usage of the language for that country, the particular dialect, and includes definitions of a word in that particular country. Also, it may list signs of ultra-correction…ie, in many Latin American countries people do not distinguish the b and v sound. It is not their fault nor their problem, it is accepted formal pronunciation, but if someone from that country spoke that way…well, it is called ultracorrección because it is not needed, sort of like being too snobbish. Similar with the z, c, and s sounds. A person borned and raised in one region of Spain may differentiate among them, but Puertorricans (as an easy example, since this is what I know) do _not_ have to differentiate. As far as I know, no, they never cut your head when you spoke different from what they advocated. They don’t need to, all they do is set the standard formal language that should be used in all formal presentations, and favorably always. They don’t control how you speak or write, they set a standard. If you write a research paper in Spanish not using the conventions of the language academies…well…not going to get very far. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![xicanorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a88e57/32.png) [@xicanorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xicanorex)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/9 "2002-06-12T20:11:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KarlGrenze \* > \*\*[Real Academia de la Lengua Española (in Spanish)](http://www.rae.es/) \*\* Hey, I had written a post about this and I come back and it has been deleted! What gives??? > [@](#): > > \*\*I still think there is a dispute between people opposing taking the ch and ll from the alphabet and those in favor of it. \*\* There was a debate with doing away with the “ñ” from the alphabet and using the “gn” French sound . . .of course those opposing it asked what would they do with words such as “digno”? The matter, I believe, has been dropped. \*\* > [@](#): > > They don’t control how you speak or write, they set a standard. If you write a research paper in Spanish not using the conventions of the language academies…well…not going to get very far. 🙂 \*\* Very true. The Real Academia dictionary is used as the standard among intellectual, academic, and journalistic circles. XicanoreX ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-academies/113528/10 "2002-06-13T01:23:09Z")
**XicanoreX** , I thought the main argument for not doing away with the ñ was that it was part of our more …erm…decorative vocabulary? 😉 They could also use the nh portuguese sound…but ñ is just one letter, not two like the other languages have.