# Language derivation/usage question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834 "2012-02-14T18:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834/1 "2012-02-14T18:49:48Z")
When you say, “I love you so!” (in this case, to my [cat](http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd69/brujaja/orangejuliusal-raschid.jpg)) what kind of “so” is it? Is it so like in “so much?” Or so as in “like so?” ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834/2 "2012-02-14T19:46:28Z")
[From Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/so): a : to an indicated or suggested extent or degree \ \*\*b : to a great extent or degree : very, extremely \ \*\* c : to a definite but unspecified extent or degree \ d : most certainly : indeed \ e : most decidedly : surely \ I suspect you’re also asking for the derivation, though. From the context, it would appear to be an elliptical form of “so much.” But I’ll leave that part up to the pros. But it’s a free bump. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834/3 "2012-02-15T02:19:58Z")
It’s so as in “so much”. But there is a logical and historical connection between the two uses: “like so” = “like some contextually specified way”. “so much” = “much to a contextually specified degree”. Over time, “contextually specified degree” becomes “high degree”. “I love you so” = “I love you to a high degree”. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834/4 "2012-02-15T03:17:10Z")
Also, compare a similar semantic drift with “that”. “Is it 6 inches long?” “No, it’s not that long” = “No it’s not long to that contextually specified degree.” But cf. “I’m not that innocent”, which most naturally means “I’m not innocent to a high degree” rather than “I’m not innocent to a contextually specified degree”. The semantic drift exemplified by both “so” and “that” is from “deictic degree” to “high degree”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834/5 "2012-02-15T04:16:01Z")
I don’t know how this is grammaticly described, but I thought “so” meant something like “in this way”, referring to some verbal or non-verbal part of the conversation. Sort of like saying “I love you thus”. And after looking up a [definition of “thus”](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thus), it shows this second definition: > [@](#): > > 1. To a stated degree or extent; so. I don’t think it implies “so much” directly. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834/6 "2012-02-15T04:27:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t know how this is grammaticly described, but I thought “so” meant something like “in this way”, referring to some verbal or non-verbal part of the conversation. If it refers to something nonverbal, it’s grammatically described as “deictic”. If it refers to something verbal, it’s grammatically described as “anaphoric”. > [@](#): > > I don’t think it implies “so much” directly. I think it does. As I tried to take pains to explain, “so” may begin life serving a deictic function, but it ends up becoming associated with a (non-deictic) “high degree” meaning. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-derivation-usage-question/612834/7 "2012-02-15T04:30:52Z")
> [@sundog66](#): > > If it refers to something nonverbal, it’s grammatically described as “deictic”. If it refers to something verbal, it’s grammatically described as “anaphoric”. > > I think it does. As I tried to take pains to explain, “so” may begin life serving a deictic function, but it ends up becoming associated with a (non-deictic) “high degree” meaning. What if while crushing an annoying pest with my foot I sneer and say “I love you so”? I suppose you could say it was irony, but it just seems this method of using “so” to mean “so much” is just entangled in the phrase “I love you” where it would usually mean that. But what about when you demonstrate a knot and say “Tie it so”? ETA: Nevermind, I see you did cover this earlier. It is about the entanglement in this case.