# Language in India **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300 "2012-01-12T16:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/81 "2012-01-14T14:54:06Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > time to pull out the old joke: > a person who speaks three languages is called:…trilingual > a person who speaks two languages is called:…bilingual > > and a person who speaks one language is called…an American. 🙂 If it’s any consolation, I’ve heard this joke in the UK, self-applied to Brits. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/82 "2012-01-14T15:07:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > He’s serious. Your typical native Anglo Californian (like me, for example) is completely mono-lingual. Californians of recent Mexican descent are likely to be bi-lingual, when talking amongst themselves. Completely mono-lingual, but IME uses a lot of Spanish words and doesn’t realize it. And people aren’t multilingual part of the time :smack: ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/83 "2012-01-14T16:50:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > and it’s not restricted to India - I was in a restaurant in Ottawa a while ago, in a group with unilingual anglos, bilingual anglos, and bilingual francos. When I was talking with the francophones, we all kept switching back and forth between English and French, as seemed convenient. What I notice is that we’ll be chatting in, say, English, then one of us will grope for a word in English, finally say it in French and then we’ll just keep talking in French until the same thing happens in reverse (and it’s not always the Francophones groping for words in English and vice-versa…) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/84 "2012-01-14T21:28:10Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Me neither, but in some contexts - written, especially - Commonwealth English could be a useful term. For example, how often has it happened on here that an American has asked about a British term and Aussies and Irish chime in and give the same answer as the Brits? It’s not a great name though because as you point out, Ireland tends to be grouped with Britain and Australia but is not in the Commonwealth (or I should say most of it isn’t). ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/85 "2012-01-14T22:31:48Z")
Aren’t Hindi and Urdu the same language? Why are they counted seperately here? Or you mean people can write it in both scripts? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/86 "2012-01-14T23:00:07Z")
They are generally considered dialects of the same language from a linguistic point of view. From a political and social point of view they are distinguished. Two people can essentially be speaking what founds like the same language but give them two different names. Or they might be speaking almost mutually unintelligible dialects and both call it either Hindi or Urdu. Both terms apply to a range of spoken dialects. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/87 "2012-01-14T23:48:26Z")
Don’t let them get you down, **Zipper**. People on this board are surprisingly insecure when it comes to their “worldliness.” You’ve started a good discussion. I think code-switching happens when you are in a bilingual group that uses different languages in different contexts. Switching back and forth requires a fair amount of attention to do without getting tripped up. So in casual conversation you stop trying and just go with whatever word comes out first. Since some words and concepts come up more often in one context than another, a fair amount of switching happens. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/88 "2012-01-14T23:52:17Z")
> [@Mike\_H](#): > > [Code-Switching](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching). > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Wow that’s awesome! Can’t believe I’ve never heard of this before. Language is so fascinating 🙂 > [@Nava](#): > > It’s a worldwide multilingual phenomenon. Code-switching isn’t just between different languages. In fact, many people who speak only one language engage in code-switching. It’s quite common for educated speakers to switch to “non-standard” usage for various reasons (functional or rhetorical), when they normal wouldn’t otherwise. Some of the more common occurances of monolingual code-switching in English are the use of _ain’t_, double negatives, etc.: [QUOTE=Newt Gingrich, Dec. 28, 2011, in Iowa] If we do all the things we need to do to get America back on track, we’re going to make mistakes, and when we make mistakes we need to have social media where you can say that **ain’t** working. The world has changed. [/quote] This is code-switching, too. Once you recognize the full scope of these more subtle instances of code-switching, it may help you better understand what’s going on when it happens between different languages. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/89 "2012-01-15T01:12:12Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > It’s not a great name though because as you point out, Ireland tends to be grouped with Britain and Australia but is not in the Commonwealth (or I should say most of it isn’t). It was, however, previously ‘owned’ by the UK. But it’d probably be too politically-loaded a term to use. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/90 "2012-01-15T21:23:45Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Once you recognize the full scope of these more subtle instances of code-switching, it may help you better understand what’s going on when it happens between different languages. A unilingual English speaker might throw in the occasional foreign word for emphasis, grammatically or not, if it’s meaning is known (as opposed to a foreign word borrowed by English). F’rinstance, “We’re in beaucoups trouble; the engine block is cracked.” Or, “The engine block is cracked — trés trouble.” I think the phenomenon is more well-known than the term for it. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/91 "2012-01-15T22:07:30Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > A unilingual English speaker might throw in the occasional foreign word for emphasis, grammatically or not, if it’s meaning is known (as opposed to a foreign word borrowed by English). > > F’rinstance, “We’re in beaucoups trouble; the engine block is cracked.” Or, “The engine block is cracked — trés trouble.” The question is whether something like that constitutes code-switching or is, in fact, simply de facto borrowing. The point of code-switching is to create [contextualization cues](http://commconcepts.wikispaces.com/Contextualization) with the other speaker(s), signaling or underscoring some specific type of relationship between (or among) them. Is that happening when someone throws in a word like _beaucoup_, or is that simply word-play? I think code-switching is something distinct from word-play. I hear code-switching constantly, at work and at home, and it always works to create (often momentarily) some specific, different relationship between the speakers. For example, when my assistant talks with co-workers, she’ll sometimes switch (to Spanish) when referring to personal matters, (especially men, etc.), to re-constitute the conversation as non-work-related. (And this is not because she suddenly doesn’t know the English word for something, either. These are things that they could easily address using solely English.) If someone says, “We’re in beaucoups trouble,” (to a non-French speaker) is something like that happening? I would say not. That’s more like playing with language. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/92 "2012-01-16T01:22:03Z")
Here’s something to further the discussion - why would code-switching be written into a movie script? I assume the audience of the movie was first Indians and then an international market. Would having two well-traveled, upper-class young people (both of the people were sports stars) speak exclusively in Hindi to each other seem more jarring than adding some English? How did the writer decide which sentences to write in English? Would any Indian have chosen the same sentences to write in English or does it seem more random? Is the “code-switching” normal in Indian screenplays or super-attention-to-detail? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/93 "2012-01-16T01:30:28Z")
My understanding is that generally speaking Bollywood movies are not made from word-for-word scripts that ate memorized by the actor. The producers, directors, and “dialogues” guy (equivalent of a screen writer) work out the general direction of each scene and then kind of coach the actors through each scene. Thus, code-switching is transmitted organically to the actors. Honestly, most Indians don’t think twice about these things. It just happens naturally. Modern popular cinema just follows the natural tendencies of the people involved in the production. This is probably different from the way “serious” movies (known as “parallel cinema” in India) are made. In that case directors and screenwriters are likely to give much more thought to the exact wording of dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/94 "2012-01-16T01:34:29Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is the “code-switching” normal in Indian screenplays or super-attention-to-detail? I can only speak from personal experience buy my Indian friend mentioned upthread [del]forced[/del] invited me to watch some Bollywood movies with her, and I noticed a switch to English occurring in movies where the characters are intended to be seen as young, contemporary, and educated. It might therefore be a simple signifier in the script for that, or maybe just a reflection of how people actually speak. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/95 "2012-01-16T06:18:28Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Me neither, but in some contexts - written, especially - Commonwealth English could be a useful term. For example, how often has it happened on here that an American has asked about a British term and Aussies and Irish chime in and give the same answer as the Brits? And if a Canadian asks a similar question and the Brits & Aussies answer, does that mean Canada is excluded from speaking Commonwealth English? There’s simply too much variation even within the Commonwealth for the term “Commonwealth English” to have much traction. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/96 "2012-01-16T08:54:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is probably different from the way “serious” movies (known as “parallel cinema” in India) are made. In that case directors and screenwriters are likely to give much more thought to the exact wording of dialogue. And even there, what’s on the script is not necessarily the exact same words which end up being said. Most directors will not make an actor repeat something that’s supposed to be natural dialogue so long as it fits the scene, exact script be damned. hijack: If you ever watch movies subtitled in the same language as the audio, there’s three main sources of differences between what’s said and the subtitles, listed here more or less in order of %: 1. the subtitlers usually work from the script, not from the auditive text; the actors didn’t say exactly what was written 2. need to shorten the text so it fits within the subtitles without these changing too fast 3. adaptation for HoH, such as including notes on noises heard. This is even worse when the subtitles and video are in a language that’s not the original. Yesterday we got [Just Go With It](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1564367/) on the train; one of the characters is a kid who wants to be an actress and keeps doing a British accent in the original - in the Spanish version, she was doing a horrid pseudo-Cuban accent (very pseudo, the closer that accent had been to Cuba was somewhere in Armenia) and other characters spoke of her fake accent as Cuban, but in the subtitles all references were to a British accent. Maybe half the subtitles didn’t match the oral version and it was mostly because the people who worked with the translation of the subtitles never received information on the translation of the oral version; every single joke had been translated differently- and it’s an Adam Sandler movie! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300/97 "2012-01-16T09:21:50Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Chak De! was a pretty good movie, btw. I especially liked the inclusion of the girls from the border that didn’t look Indian at all, practically looked Chinese. Did you catch early in the movie when 5 of the girls were benched, one of them called one of the girls from the border “chow mein”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-in-india/609300.md?page=4)