# Language Peeves **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598 "2010-06-10T00:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/21 "2010-06-10T04:06:47Z")
Aluminium not Aluminum I really don’t like “youse” Hey youse guys! ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/22 "2010-06-10T04:34:27Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > “Duck Tape” for “Duct Tape” Both may be acceptable, as [the etymology of this expression is in question](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#Etymology). ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/23 "2010-06-10T04:55:25Z")
Mixing up faze and phase drives me batty. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/24 "2010-06-10T05:53:53Z")
I regularly hear realtors mispronounce their own professions: “Reel-a-tor” instead of “reel-tor.” Makes me crazy, it does! ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/25 "2010-06-10T05:55:22Z")
That would suggest to me that it is more a common and acceptable variant pronunciation than a mispronunciation. (This is not to dispute whether or not it makes you crazy.) ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/26 "2010-06-10T06:02:41Z")
As long as there are those who pronounce it correctly. Reel-a- tor is not a variant, it’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/27 "2010-06-10T06:11:09Z")
See, what it boils down to is people making up something in their heads. They are seeing an extra “a” in the middle there and adjusting the pronunciation. Some of us only deal with what’s actually there. “Mischievous” being a classic example. It’s not mis-chee-vee-us, just mis-chi-vus. Those "I"s get all jumbled up for some people. But if some of us get it right, then it stands to reason that some are getting it wrong. Sounds like a “warm and fuzzy”, “PC”, “let’s not hurt anybody’s feelings” attitude that makes language accuracy out of bounds. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/28 "2010-06-10T06:28:06Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > As long as there are those who pronounce it correctly. Reel-a- tor is not a variant, it’s just wrong. I’m not sure what you’re saying here. As long as some people say it one way, no other way can be a variant? That seems opposed to the very concept of a variant. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/29 "2010-06-10T06:30:14Z")
You know what really grinds my teeth? People who say “latter” like the word “ladder”. It’s as if they don’t know the difference between a “t” and a “d”! You know what really cranks my jaw? People who pronounce “new” as “noo” instead of “nyoo”. What, you’re too lazy to get it right? You know what really steams my onions? People who write “homogeneous” instead of “homogenous”. It’s not that hard! It’s spelt like it’s pronounced; there’s no extra “ee” sound in there. Oh, and the thing that really tourniquets my grandma… “Mecksicko”. It’s not “Mecksicko”, you ignorant yokels! It’s “Mayheeko”. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/30 "2010-06-10T06:35:35Z")
I never said they say it one way. I said “the right way”. As in the only way. Take “the” for instance. Can be prononced “thee” or “thuh”. Would you not agree that someone pronouncing it “theh” as in rhyming with “bent” would be wrong? Not a variant. Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/31 "2010-06-10T06:42:11Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > You know what really grinds my teeth? People who say “latter” like the word “ladder”. It’s as if they don’t know the difference between a “t” and a “d”! > > You know what really cranks my jaw? People who pronounce “new” as “noo” instead of “nyoo”. What, you’re too lazy to get it right? > > You know what really steams my onions? People who write “homogeneous” instead of “homogenous”. It’s not that hard! It’s spelt like it’s pronounced; there’s no extra “ee” sound in there. > > Oh, and the thing that really tourniquets my grandma… “Mecksicko”. It’s not “Mecksicko”, you ignorant yokels! It’s “Mayheeko”. Very funny.😃 Actually though, it’s meh-hee-ko, “meh” rhyming with the aforementioned “bent”. But mecksicko is actually closer to the original native pronunciation than the Spanish version. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/32 "2010-06-10T06:44:04Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > I never said they say it one way. I said “the right way”. As in the only way. > > Take “the” for instance. Can be prononced “thee” or “thuh”. > Would you not agree that someone pronouncing it “theh” as in rhyming with “bent” would be wrong? Not a variant. Wrong. Yes, insofar as no native speaker of English pronounces it that way (so far as I know), it is wrong in the sense of its failure to conform to the norms of English speech. In the unlikely case that large numbers of English speakers were to begin pronouncing it that way, to the point that it was a prevalent and to them unmarked pronunciation, it would then become a nonstandard variant, and perhaps even eventually, with enough time and familiarity, a standard variant (not that there is a bright line between the two). Were it to actually become the pronunciation norm within particular speech communities, it would move into the territory of being the sole standard for those particular lects of English, with the alternative pronunciations in fact being the wrong ones as judged by the correctness criteria of those strata of the language. And so on… If pronunciation rules were handed down from heaven, we’d each be wrong every time we exhibited evidence of the Great Vowel Shift. Luckily, language rules aren’t handed down from heaven; they’re an abstraction representing, and hopefully accurately describing, the linguistic behavior of a speech community. If that behavior begins to shift or exhibit variation, then so do the language rules accordingly. (Incidentally, lest anyone get the idea that I’m solely a party pooper, there are many complaints in this thread which I’ve left alone, seeing no need to argue with them. And I’ve never claimed that anyone is not entitled to be annoyed by whatever annoys them.) ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/33 "2010-06-10T06:47:00Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > But mecksicko is actually closer to the original native pronunciation than the Spanish version. Someone should tell the Mexicans they’re pronouncing it wrong, then! ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/34 "2010-06-10T06:49:04Z")
Some of us know. Okay, technically American. But of Hispanic descent. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/35 "2010-06-10T06:50:22Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > (And I’ve never claimed that anyone is not entitled to be annoyed by whatever annoys them.) For example, though their purpose was of course as jokes, that thing about “homogeneous” genuinely is something which irks me, for no rational or compelling reason. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/36 "2010-06-10T06:52:03Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > As long as there are those who pronounce it correctly. Reel-a- tor is not a variant, it’s just wrong. I agree with you entirely. But you know that you’ve just opened the door for those who will insist that “nuk-u-lar” is just a varant, and not wrong. “Here there be monsters” and all… ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/37 "2010-06-10T06:56:16Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Yes, insofar as no native speaker of English pronounces it that way (so far as I know), it is wrong in the sense of its failure to conform to the norms of English speech. In the unlikely case that large numbers of English speakers were to begin pronouncing it that way, to the point that it was a prevalent and to them unmarked pronunciation, it would then become a nonstandard variant, and perhaps even eventually, with enough time and familiarity, a standard variant (not that there is a bright line between the two). Were it to actually become the pronunciation norm within particular speech communities, it would move into the territory of being the sole standard for those particular lects of English, with the alternative pronunciations in fact being the wrong ones as judged by the correctness criteria of those strata of the language. And so on… > > If pronunciation rules were handed down from heaven, we’d each be wrong every time we exhibited evidence of the Great Vowel Shift. Luckily, language rules aren’t handed down from heaven; they’re an abstraction representing, and hopefully accurately describing, the linguistic behavior of a speech community. If that behavior begins to shift or exhibit variation, then so do the language rules accordingly. > > (Incidentally, lest anyone get the idea that I’m solely a party pooper, there are many complaints in this thread which I’ve left alone, seeing no need to argue with them. And I’ve never claimed that anyone is not entitled to be annoyed by whatever annoys them.) We have to have language books. References, standards for new learners to follow. Language is not solely learned by oral tradition. Particularly second languages. You don’t teach dialect or variants. You teach standard vocabulary and grammar. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/38 "2010-06-10T06:57:03Z")
“Literally,” used for emphasis, e.g. “I literally died laughing.” ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/39 "2010-06-10T07:00:26Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Language is not solely learned by oral tradition. Spoken language is absolutely almost entirely learned by oral osmosis. How do you suppose it existed for all those years before writing and standardized education? ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/40 "2010-06-10T07:01:26Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > I agree with you entirely. But you know that you’ve just opened the door for those who will insist that “nuk-u-lar” is just a varant, and not wrong. “Here there be monsters” and all… Well, there are plenty of Bush haters on these boards so maybe that sleeping giant won’t awaken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598.md?page=3)