# Language Peeves **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598 "2010-06-10T00:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/61 "2010-06-10T17:46:51Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > I’ve never seen anyone use a lower case o with a single dot over it to represent that sound, but ok (pronunciation transcription is notoriously variable between dictionaries). Regardless, many Americans have the caught-cot and father-bother mergers, so that, for them, there is no difference between any of those sounds. You’ll have to take that one up with Mr. Webster, then. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/62 "2010-06-10T17:49:22Z")
(Indeed, almost all Americans have the father-bother merger. Incidentally, if anyone is curious, the usual IPA symbol (not that most dictionaries use IPA, but it is the only thing close to a universal standard) for the bother vowel would be /ɒ/, for the father vowel would be /ɑ/, and for the saw vowel would be /ɔ/, though of course the exact symbol chosen depends on how broad or narrow transcription one intends is and the accent one is representing) Take what up with Mr. Webster? Yes, Merriam Webster apparently uses an ‘o’ with a single dot over it to represent /ɔ/; as I noted, I was unfamiliar with that particular choice of symbol but did not dispute that some dictionaries might do so. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/63 "2010-06-10T17:56:28Z")
I suppose the father-bother merger isn’t actually relevant, since those who lack it would agree that omelette begins with the vowel of “bother”. It just threw me that an ‘a’ with two dots above it was thought of as representing the “bother” vowel rather than the “father” vowel, but apparently Merriam-Webster doesn’t distinguish between the two at all (as is reasonable for a dictionary targeted at the American market). The caught-cot merger still explains the entirety of the commercial’s explanation. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/64 "2010-06-10T18:02:04Z")
I could fill a page with my peeves but I’ll just mention that if you pronounce library as “li_berry_” or picture as “pitcher” I will think very bad thoughts about you indeed. I guess these are considered regionalisms(?) Well, I hate regionalisms:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/65 "2010-06-10T18:45:23Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Matata](#): > > But how does one justify adding a non-existant syllable as a “reasonable variant?” Look at the work “realtor” - no vowel between the letters l and t. Or “nuclear” - no vowel between the c and the l. How does one find an extra syllable between “reel” and “tor,” or between “noo/nyoo” and “cle”? I think that’s basically a euphonic sound appearing in the word to make it fit common English language patterns. As for “mischievious”, I suppose it’s happened by analogy with other words in -ious such as “impervious” or “superstitious”. ---
**Author:** ![ThirdOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@ThirdOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThirdOne)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/66 "2010-06-10T19:28:07Z")
My pet peeves: nip it in the butt (nip it in the bud) all of the sudden (all of a sudden) accidently (accidentally) on accident (by accident) grrrr Oh and it’s not (it isn’t). To me, it sounds as if someone is saying it’s snot. Alas, it has become so prevalent, I’ve caught myself saying it :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/67 "2010-06-10T19:51:11Z")
A “mute point” instead of a “moot point.” This former would only seem applicable if the point was about not talking or being able to. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/68 "2010-06-10T20:02:54Z")
> [@Lare](#): > > A “mute point” instead of a “moot point.” This former would only seem applicable if the point was about not talking or being able to. “I meant ‘The former,’ he whines, cringing in a corner.” ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/69 "2010-06-10T20:28:43Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > I suppose the father-bother merger isn’t actually relevant, since those who lack it would agree that omelette begins with the vowel of “bother”. It just threw me that an ‘a’ with two dots above it was thought of as representing the “bother” vowel rather than the “father” vowel, but apparently Merriam-Webster doesn’t distinguish between the two at all (as is reasonable for a dictionary targeted at the American market). > > The caught-cot merger still explains the entirety of the commercial’s explanation. Yes. I see your error and am glad you see it also. 😉 Sounds like you know quite a bit about pronunciation but you’ve left me with an off-topic question about dialectics. ---
**Author:** ![BobArrgh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobarrgh/32/2881_2.png) [@BobArrgh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobArrgh)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/70 "2010-06-10T21:43:17Z")
Someone already mentioned “loose” for “lose”, but I’ll second it here. I hate that. Also, the use of “you” instead of “your” is becoming all too familiar. Put them together to really drive me nuts, as in, “Don’t loose you lunch money.” ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/71 "2010-06-10T22:46:15Z")
> [@ThirdOne](#): > > Oh and it’s not (it isn’t). To me, it sounds as if someone is saying it’s snot. Alas, it has become so prevalent, I’ve caught myself saying it :smack: You describe “It has become so prevalent” as if this is merely a recent phenomenon. I doubt there was ever a time in history when “It isn’t” was a common phrase and “It’s not” was a rare one. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/72 "2010-06-10T23:22:15Z")
> [@Lacunae Matata](#): > > You are mentally/verbally rearranging letters when pronouncing a word. Misreading leads to mispronunciation, not to “acceptable variant.” Just wanted to point out that this is factually incorrect. The rearrangement of “letters” (more accurately, sounds) of course _can_ lead to a mispronunciation when it occurs in isolation as a slip of the tongue, but it sometimes does lead to an acceptable variant, and sometimes the variant even wins out over the original form. For example, English “bird” used to be “brid”. This kind of change, where two sounds swap places, is known as ‘metathesis’, and it is common. You seem to have a conviction that certain kinds of sound changes lead to acceptable variants and others lead to mispronunciations, depending on how the innovations relate to the original forms, but things simply don’t work that way. Yes, “real-a-tor” is considered nonstandard, but ‘epenthesis’, or the insertion of a new sound is a word, is an extremely common sound change crosslinguistically. Sometimes the variant becomes standard and sometimes it does not, but this has little or nothing to do with what kind of sound change it is. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/73 "2010-06-10T23:29:37Z")
Other common examples of metathesis are horse (originally hros), wasp (originally waps), and thirteen (originally more like three-teen). And, very visibly, since the standard spelling preserves the shape of the original pronunciation: iron. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/74 "2010-06-11T00:26:46Z")
This is completely unrelated to the grammar peeves in this thread, but it’s still a “language” peeve. The use of a Greek capital Lambda to stand for a Latin capital A, and the use of a Greek capital Sigma to stand for a Latin capital E. The latter I haven’t seen much of lately and tends to only be used to provide a Greek touch to something, but the former I’m seeing all over the place and it really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really irritates me. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/75 "2010-06-11T01:12:59Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Another? Referencing a group of people and using the word “between” instead of “among.” Such as, “Fred and his three uncles were slow to dig the car out of the mud because they only had one shovel between them.” I cannot agree with that. Not only is “one shovel between them” correct, “one shovel among them” is downright wrong! There might, perhaps, have only been one teenager among them (Fred, presumably), and there might have been only one shovel among all the tools they had in the trunk, but the upshot of that is that the men only had one shovel _between_ them. To say that something is _among_ some group of things, is to imply that it is a member of the group, on a more or less equal footing with the others. \*Between \*does not carry that implication; neither does it _always_ carry the implication of being an intermediate in some spatial or temporal series (although in many contexts, it does). If you were to say that the men only had one spade between them, that would be fine; if you were to say that they only had one spade among them, you might be taken to be racially insensitive. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hougaswd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@hougaswd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hougaswd)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/76 "2010-06-11T01:52:55Z")
My speech would cause many of you to be peeved. But even I have my limits. I overheard this some time ago: “We’ll go by youse guys place later.” The “guys” in question were all female. Walt ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/77 "2010-06-11T02:34:17Z")
> [@SaxFace](#): > > My boss is British and it drives him INSANE when Americans say things like, “I already ate.” He is a present perfect junkie. I had a British friend who had a lot of peeves about the way Americans speak. Huh was a big complaint. _You Yanks sound like geese HUH HUH!_ ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/78 "2010-06-11T02:45:50Z")
This is just a peeve, not a matter of proper grammar… All of a sudden, everyone is “well” instead of “good.” “How are you?” “I’m well, thanks.” WTF y’all? We’ve all been good for as long as I can remember. Becoming well just makes you sound awkward!!! I also dislike the pronunciation of the “t” in often. It can be pronounced either way, I know. My best friend (who does not have the tightest grasp of English) decided in the past few years that it makes him sound smarter to pronounce the “t” so I think him doing it makes me hate everyone else who does it. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/79 "2010-06-11T05:55:55Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Other common examples of metathesis are horse (originally hros), wasp (originally waps), and thirteen (originally more like three-teen). And, very visibly, since the standard spelling preserves the shape of the original pronunciation: iron. Also, Brett “Farv”. > [@glowacks](#): > > This is completely unrelated to the grammar peeves in this thread, but it’s still a “language” peeve. > > The use of a Greek capital Lambda to stand for a Latin capital A, and the use of a Greek capital Sigma to stand for a Latin capital E. > > The latter I haven’t seen much of lately and tends to only be used to provide a Greek touch to something, but the former I’m seeing all over the place and it really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really irritates me. So kind of like [faux Cyrillic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faux_Cyrillic), except for Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598/80 "2010-06-11T07:04:01Z")
And another thing, it really isn’t– > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > This is just a peeve, not a matter of proper grammar… –Oh. Yes, well, … Your disclaimer spares you my wrath. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-peeves/542598.md?page=5)