# Language spoken by Roman soldiers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800 "2003-08-17T16:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/21 "2003-08-20T12:11:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > **UnuMondo, I’ve studied both Polish and Latin for years in school. Have you?** I’m a classicist by training, with about seven years of Latin behind me. Having studied Greek and Sanskrit as well, I’m familiar with the origin of European languages (see below). > [@](#): > > \*\*I’ve been struck by a great many correspondences between the languages, particularly and most telling the fact that the most common forms of the verb “to be” are virtually identical. Polish 3rd person singular _jest_ corresponding to Lastin third person singular _est_, and Polish third person plural _sa_ (pronounced “sewn”, roughly) corresponding to Latin third person plural _sunt_. \*\* This is not a sign of influence of Latin on Polish, but rather it shows that both Polish and Latin are both descendents of Proto-Indo-European. German “ist” and classical Greek “esti” are similar to Latin “est”, but that doesn’t mean Latin influenced the basic word stock of German or it’s “big brother” Greek. As I said, the Romans never penetrated Slavonia to any major degree. And even if they had, it wouldn’t have been likely that Latin would have altered the basic way Polish works. It would have left some terminology behind, but it wouldn’t have changed the verb “to be”. I’d very much recommend reading a book on the Indo-European language family. You’ll see how Hindi and Irish even share some traits, a sign not of any traffic between the two during the centuries, but an indication of a common origin. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/22 "2003-08-20T14:00:51Z")
(continuing a hijack because UnoMondo is right but I don’t want this to get ugly because Cal’s a friend, too) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Agback \* > **France ended up as a Permanent Member of the Security Council (unlike Australia, which is very unfair).** But then we’d’ve had to let in Canada, New Zealand, and all sorts of other riff-raff. 😉 There’s a point where you just have to say “Everybody with an empire, you’re in. The rest of you will have to take turns.” ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/23 "2003-08-20T14:54:21Z")
But I thought we hadn’t informed the world of their oh-so-polite Canadian overlords…! Um. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/24 "2003-08-20T15:17:50Z")
> [@](#): > > (continuing a hijack because UnoMondo is right but I don’t want this to get ugly because Cal’s a friend, too) > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by Agback France ended up as a Permanent Member of the Security Council (unlike Australia, which is very unfair). > > But then we’d’ve had to let in Canada, New Zealand, and all sorts of other riff-raff. There’s a point where you just have to say “Everybody with an empire, you’re in. The rest of you will have to take turns.” Kind words, but, Huh? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/25 "2003-08-20T15:48:02Z")
> [@](#): > > But then we’d’ve had to let in Canada, New Zealand, and all sorts of other riff-raff. There’s a point where you just have to say “Everybody with an empire, you’re in. The rest of you will have to take turns.” He was joking. Actually, given the way France is right (and their Empire’s collapse post 1945, let alone before) now, admitting Australia woul dhave been a better idea. Chalk it up to a historical goof. The next time, you Aussies are in, K? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/26 "2003-08-20T16:20:25Z")
(sigh) Despite Agback’s sense of what’s fair, though Australia had been very helpful in WWII it did not qualify as a permanent member of the UN Security Council because it wasn’t a large, populous country with an empire, Tasmania notwithstanding. 😉 Had we allowed this relaxation of the unofficial rules then any two-bit country would have precedent to point to when they complained about not being permanent members, too. Now the qualifier seems to be “enough firepower to wipe out humanity,” though that is subject to change when third-rate powers get their own stockpiles of WMDs–maintaining exclusivity of an organization requires constant monitoring and modification of the rules to keep the peasantry out. As I said, though, I was continuing his(?) hijack, but it has been hijacked enough, fercryinoutloud! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/27 "2003-08-21T00:02:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > \*\*Egypt was only weakly Hellenized, the Greek population having clustered almost exclusively in Alexandria. The overwhelmingly dominant language was native Coptic until well into the Islamic era. > > Not that it matters much anyway in the context of this discussion, as no one between a desperate Ptolemy IV Philopater in the 3rd century B.C.E. and Muhammed Ali in the 19th century, bothered to recruit native Egyptians as soldiers. > > - Tamerlane \*\* True, but, in the context of this discussion, Egypt never became Romanized enough to speak Latin, but the Greek speakers there maintained their Greek language. Although the north african areas did get romanized, and Carthage was heavily romanized (there were pockets of romance speakers in North Africa up until the 6th century only dying out as a result of the Arabs moving into the area). Even the emperor Severus was said to have spoken with an “African pronunciation”. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/28 "2003-08-21T03:53:11Z")
It gets worse, too, when you consider how some people wrote. If I may offer a quote from Aubrey de Selincourt’s Translator’s Introduction to Arrian’s _The Campaigns of Alexander_: “After the end of the Alexandrian Age, from early in the second century before Christ, Greek literature rapidly declined, and during the hundred years–say from 50 B.C. to A.D. 50–when Latin literature was at its height, it had almost petered out… However, it was not yet finished, and the second century of our era had hardly begun when there was a renaissance of the Greek spirit, and Greek began once again to be used as a literary language–it had, of course, never ceased to be spoken over great tracts of the eastern Roman empire, and educated Romans were as familiar with it as educated Englishmen are with French today…” The introduction goes on, with a hint of annoyance, to describe the growing trend in which authors–including Appian, Marcus Aurelius, Pausanias, Galen, and Lucian–to _archaeize_ their writing in the style of the even-then-ancient Greeks, for the spoken Greek language had already evolved significantly by then. Thus, I suppose it was possible that somewhere around 150 A.D. you might have a cultured Roman officer who spoke Latin to his peers, addressed orders to his troops in then-modern Greek, and wrote his memoirs in a bad imitation of ancient Greek. There’s a Napoleon joke in there somewhere, but sadly it’s beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/29 "2003-08-21T05:10:02Z")
G’day According to this site \<[http://www.usd.edu/erp/Palestine/administ.htm](http://www.usd.edu/erp/Palestine/administ.htm)\>, before the revolt in 67-70 AD there were no legion stationed in Palestine. “As equestrians the governors could not command legionary forces and in military situations they yielded to their superiors, the legates of Syria, who would descend into Palestine with their legions as necessary.\_ The governors of Judaea did have small auxiliary forces of locally recruited soldiers stationed regularly in Caesarea and Jerusalem and temporarily anywhere else that required a military presence.\_ The total number of soldiers at their disposal numbered in the range of 3000.” According to \<[http://www.usd.edu/erp/Palestine/history.htm](http://www.usd.edu/erp/Palestine/history.htm)\>,"As an annex of Syria Judaea had a governor of lesser rank than the senators who governed most provinces: an officer of the equestrian order titled prefect. The prefect usually resided in Caesarea, probably in Herod’s palace on a promontory in the southern part of the city (seen here extending into the sea west of the theater).\_ The prefects fulfilled military, financial, and limited judicial functions: see the page on administration for more information.\_ An auxiliary force raised in Caesarea and Sebaste supported the governor in Caesarea and garrisoned Jerusalem. " And “Jews did not serve in the auxiliary forces normally recruited from among the native population of a province.” So it looks as though the ‘Roman’ soldiers serving in Jerusalem at the time in question would have been neither Romans nor legionaries. They would have been Greek and Syrian auxiliaries, with Greek or Aramaic as their native language, and precious little exposure to Latin. Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/30 "2003-08-21T05:20:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > **He was joking.** I was. But like a lot of things, we laugh because it’s funny and we laugh because it’s true. > [@](#): > > \*\*Actually, given the way France is right (…) now, admitting Australia would have been a better idea. Chalk it up to a historical goof. > > The next time, you Aussies are in, K? \*\* Thanks, mate! We’re looking forward to it. And if there is anything we can do for you, like invade somewhere or shoot someone, just say the word. Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![Moop\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Moop\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moop_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/31 "2017-11-29T17:45:02Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > In every movie I’ve ever seen the Roman soldiers spoke English. That’s because the actors where American. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/32 "2017-11-29T18:32:23Z")
> [@Moop\_1](#): > > That’s because the actors where American. I hesitate to contribute to a zombie Roman Soldier thread – zombie roman soldiers are notoriously difficult to kill – but In _Spartacus_ and the TV movie _Masada_ and, I think, several others the Romans – at least the commanders – were British, and spoke with British accents. Americans played the roles of foreigners or footsoldiers, so there was a clear difference between the upper-class Romans and Everyone Else (It also fit in nicely with the parallels between the British and Roman empires) So the Romans spoke English because they were English, in those cases. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/33 "2017-11-29T18:42:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I hesitate to contribute to a zombie Roman Soldier thread – zombie roman soldiers are notoriously difficult to kill A common misconception, due to selection effects. Roman soldier zombies showed the same variation in difficulty to kill as any other sort of zombie. It’s just that, thousands of years later, the only ones left are the really tough ones, all the rest having already been killed. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/34 "2017-11-29T19:16:36Z")
> [@Moop\_1](#): > > That’s because the actors where American. Where American? There American! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/35 "2017-11-29T19:23:41Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > So the Romans spoke English because they were English, in those cases. Well, but if they were English, then they probably would have learned Latin in some fancy boarding school. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/36 "2017-11-29T19:35:24Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > In every movie I’ve ever seen the Roman soldiers spoke English. Or was dubbed into English from Italian. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/37 "2017-11-29T19:47:33Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Where American? … in London. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/38 "2017-11-29T20:04:36Z")
> [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](#): > > Wouldn’t it be cheaper to outfit your own army than pay for expensive mercenaries? . . . In the early republic, men who joined a legion had to outfit themselves, which was cheaper than either. It also meant that you had to be relatively well off to join up. I forget if it was Sulla or Marius who started outfitting the “head count”, Romans too poor to outfit themselves. That was a major shift and the beginning of armies being more loyal to their general than to the government of Rome. ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/39 "2017-11-29T21:16:08Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > In the early republic, men who joined a legion had to outfit themselves, which was cheaper than either. It also meant that you had to be relatively well off to join up. I forget if it was Sulla or Marius who started outfitting the “head count”, Romans too poor to outfit themselves. That was a major shift and the beginning of armies being more loyal to their general than to the government of Rome. It was Marius, and of course had enormous repercussions. But the problem in the first place was that the farmers who had previously made up the legions were all being squeezed out by the _latifundia_ so it sort of had to happen if Rome was to continue having an army at all. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800/40 "2017-11-29T22:56:33Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Actually, given the way France is right (and their Empire’s collapse post 1945, let alone before) now, admitting Australia woul dhave been a better idea. Chalk it up to a historical goof. But Australia is in the wrong half of the world! How would it work having one Security Council member where the people go around upside down? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/language-spoken-by-roman-soldiers/195800.md?page=3)