# Languages inherently good/bad for singing **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701 "2007-09-10T20:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/41 "2007-09-13T19:47:26Z")
[QUOTE=wolfman] Music in German is okay, but what is really bad is singing in English translated from German. [/QUOTE] Agreed. _Silent Night_ and _O Christmas Tree_ are just awful. For German songs, Xavier Naidoo did some very good stuff that had a nice smooth sound. For tonal languages, I have heard some stuff that is not bad, Loso for example. This is Thai and not Chinese, and tones are a bit lost on me, so it could be that he is singing nonsense, although his ballands sound plaintive to me. ---
**Author:** ![Lunar\_Saltlick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/977dab/32.png) [@Lunar\_Saltlick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lunar_Saltlick)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/42 "2007-09-13T20:01:44Z")
Count me among those who are baffled by the “American style.” Is Guns N’ Roses the American style? Does Leonard Cohen, Canadian though he may be, sing in the American style? How about Devestatin’ Dave, the Turntable Slave? Zip, Zap, Rap! Anyway, if you’re looking for pop rock in French with a beautiful melody and lyrics that rhyme (some of the time), check out the following artists/groups: Francis Cabrel Catherine Durand Alain Souchon Stephan Eicher Beau Dommage Harmonium Zachary Richard Cabrel in particular has a boatload of stuff on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/43 "2007-09-13T20:16:33Z")
I’ll just go ahead and make this explicit: I think English is a superb language for singing. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/44 "2007-09-14T09:40:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] ??? A tonal language requires this though. The sound ‘MA’ means seven different things in Cantonese, everything from Grandmother to horse. [/QUOTE] Trust me, as I explained above, the tones are not sung in most contemporary songs. You get by on context. Beijing Opera (and some other traditions) does incorporate tones, but modern pop/rock ignores them. Ambiguities sometimes result, and this is probably why they show the lyrics in music videos (even those not meant for karaoke). As it seems you don’t want to believe me, this is what [Indopedia](http://www.indopedia.org/Tonal_language.html) has to say on the subject: > [@](#): > > How the tones of syllables are handled when a song is sung in a tonal language depends on the language, as it is generally governed by the respective culture’s traditions. In Mandarin, the tones are generally dropped, thereby making the song hard to understand and sometimes ambiguous without written lyrics. (This statement about Mandarin is true about modern Mandarin pop, but is not true about the various styles of musical theatre sung in Mandarin, such as the style known as Peking Opera.) In Cantonese (and Taiwanese), it is generally attempted to construct the melody or the lyrics in such a way that they fit to each other (even in modern pop). Other tonal languages may have other customs. (Vietnamese folk and classical music also respect tonal contours.) ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/45 "2007-09-14T13:25:12Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] They’ve done both works written by themselves and translated ones, including several Rogers and Hammerstein ones (El Mikado is the one coming to mind now). [/QUOTE] Curley-Poo enters stage right singing _A Wandering Cowman I_. Immediately Laurie-Yum falls in love with the handsome tenor and counters with _Many a New Sun Whose Rays_. Lord High Executioner Jud-Jud is jealous of their youthful love but cannot decide whether to commit ritual suicide by hanging or beheading (_Behold the Poor Lord High Executioner is Dead_). It’s got some possibilities. . . 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/46 "2007-09-14T13:32:27Z")
Anyone who thinks you cannot sing in French should listen to the original Les Miserables. A fine piece that had to half of it redone for English. And Les Miz and Jesus Christ Superstar prove that anything written in one language can be translated into another, as they both have been done in over a dozen different languages. As I stated above, it depends more on the translator and the singers than the languages. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/47 "2007-09-14T14:21:57Z")
[QUOTE=wolfman] I grew up in a Lutheran Church and the Hymnal back then consisted mostly of old Traditional German Lutheran songs directly translated into English. [/QUOTE] Missouri Synod, right? I can’t say that the hymns are one of the reasons I converted from LCMS to Reform Judaism, but it certainly didn’t help. Hebrew, IMHO, is beautiful when sung or chanted, but quite hard on the ears when spoken. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/48 "2007-09-14T19:21:44Z")
[QUOTE=Darth Nader] So Italiano \> Deutsch, or as a more extreme example, Hawai’ian might be more appealing than Xhosa? [/QUOTE] Eh? Give me a shout when some Hawai’an singer is as famous as Miriam Makeba. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/49 "2007-09-14T22:43:55Z")
Don Ho? I was talking about the languages, not the artists, anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/50 "2007-09-14T23:50:28Z")
Ever try singing in Pascal? Probably not that great a language for singing. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2007, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/51 "2007-09-15T06:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Eh? Give me a shout when some Hawai’an singer is as famous as Miriam Makeba. [/QUOTE] _hands you a shout_ [Israel Kamakawiwo’ole](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Kamakawiwo'ole) I’ve found Hawai’ian to be a gorgeous language to sing in–as well as Lnuísimk, the language of the Micmaq. Tagalog rap is really interesting. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2007, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/52 "2007-09-15T08:24:23Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] _hands you a shout_ [Israel Kamakawiwo’ole](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Kamakawiwo'ole) [/QUOTE] I said “as famous as” the Grammy-winning, married to Stokely Carmichael & Hugh Masekela, Paul Simon- and Harry Belafonte-collaborating [Miriam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_Makeba), not some (very) big fish in a small pond. I’ve never heard of the guy or his music, which doesn’t say much (I see he was on the world music charts) but is a data point. [QUOTE=Darth Nader] Don Ho? [/QUOTE] By Hawai’ian Singer I meant someone who sings in Hawai’ian [QUOTE=Darth Nader] I was talking about the languages, not the artists, anyways. [/QUOTE] That’s why I brought up Makeba. Her _Click Song_ serves as a wonderful illustration that a language doesn’t need an emphasis on vowels to be enjoyable. Xhosa clicks serve as percussion in that song, with the rest of the lyrics winding about them. Try doing that with Hawai’ian. Not that Xhosa is light on the vowels, anyway. Ever heard our [anthem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nkosi_Sikelel'_iAfrika)? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2007, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/53 "2007-09-15T08:38:44Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Ever try singing in Pascal? Probably not that great a language for singing. [/QUOTE] It’s probably better than brainfuck, though. > [@jackdavinci](#): > > (…) it seemed like there were too many words trying to fit into each bar. … Like Bob Dylan? It’s true that in some forms of French chanson, the melody can somewhat be incidental. For instance some songs by George Brassens: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/DgrQ67SswJ8/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/DgrQ67SswJ8?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque If you can’t understand what he’s singing, you’re probably missing 80% of what makes this song great. However, there is _a lot_ of French songs that rhyme. Someone mentioned Alain Souchon upthread, he’s a masterful lyricist in the pop-rock genre: listen to this song for instance: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/M5RcTEwemWU/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/M5RcTEwemWU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque French chanson is a lot more than just Edith Piaf. My favourite signer, Barbara, was a bit more laid back (and sadder!) musically than Piaf. To my ears, the following song is incredebly flowing: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/j7LJWYviTag/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/j7LJWYviTag?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque There’s also a German version of the song above. It’s a lot more choppy, but I can’t tell if it’s German or her accent. Here’s a song by Charles Aznavour, in English: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yV7MELY44DQ/hqdefault.jpg "yesterday when I was young") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV7MELY44DQ) Compare it with the French original, starting 2:10 in this video: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/UzBncolQjP0/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/UzBncolQjP0?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque To me the French and English versions of this song always sounded like two completely different songs, even though this singer is the same and the arrangements are very similar. It’s hard for me to judge French strictly for its sounds and I feel anyone posting to this thread would have the same difficulties assessing English. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701/54 "2007-09-27T04:40:42Z")
I love singing in Latin. It was always a treat when we got to do this at church choir (and since this was the United Church, it didn’t happen too often). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/languages-inherently-good-bad-for-singing/418701.md?page=2)