# Lap dances are not art **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713 "2012-10-24T11:49:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/1 "2012-10-24T11:49:09Z")
In what must be a blow to businessmen and terpsichoreans everywhere, the New York high court has ruled that [lap dances](http://www.sfgate.com/business/personal-finance/article/NY-top-court-says-lap-dance-isn-t-art-is-taxable-3974062.php)do not contribute to the community in the same way as ballet and thus are taxable under state laws. It was a close decision so perhaps the management and artists at Nite Moves can appeal to the SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/2 "2012-10-24T12:12:04Z")
But I’m sure ballet is exempt from taxes because, like in Australia, it doesn’t actually make any profit but subsists on grants, endowments and public funding. Seems to be the same deal with several other art forms that meet with the approval of the people who control the purse strings. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/3 "2012-10-24T12:18:37Z")
Clearly they have never had a good lap dance. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/4 "2012-10-24T12:36:36Z")
This is disappointing to hear as I’ve already purchased a subscription for the whole season. I was also looking forward to seeing my name in the program under “VIP Circle Members.” ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/5 "2012-10-24T23:08:20Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > It was a close decision so perhaps the management and artists at Nite Moves can appeal to the SCOTUS. Clarence Thomas has got to be in the bag for them. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/6 "2012-10-25T00:19:54Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > It was a close decision so perhaps the management and artists at Nite Moves can appeal to the SCOTUS. Apart from how we’d love to see how Thomas ruled on this, SCOTUS already declined to take a Texas case on strip club taxes so as this was also a state tax case in state court, I don’t see anything different happen. (Texas has what has been called a “Pole Tax” where you pay a $5 surtax at the door on top of any cover charge) The deal with NY is that there is a sales tax exception for “The Arts” that venues that offer mere “amusement” do not enjoy. > [@bloomberg.com](#): > > While the state imposes a sales tax on any admission charge greater than 10 cents for the use of a “place of amusement,” the Legislature created an exemption for “dramatic or musical arts performances,” according to the ruling. Besides the NY statute needing some desperate CPI updating (when the Hell was the last time admission to anything in that state was ten cents) I’m now wondering if this means not only admission but also each individual lap dance will be taxed, with the clubs having to withhold it off of each dancer’s share of her take at the end of the shift. Most exotic dancers in the US are legally “contractors” who _pay the club_ to work there, either with an upfront fee or a share of every dollar moved in dances and drinks or a combination thereof; in some NY City clubs they start the night hundreds of dollars in the red and don’t make anything until they’ve moved that much in sales. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/7 "2012-10-25T00:32:54Z")
Naked, up-close ballet should solve this little conundrum. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/8 "2012-10-25T01:42:54Z")
Kidding aside, this was a reasonable decision. Lap dancing is not being singled out. The decision noted that things like baseball games, amusement parks, and ice skating shows pay the tax. So the law’s definition of art seems to exclude performances that would better be qualified as forms of entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/9 "2012-10-25T02:40:10Z")
It may not be an art, but it’s certainly a skill; where are the unions in all this? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/10 "2012-10-25T03:09:35Z")
Do court rulings extend to my description to my wife of my activities activities? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/11 "2012-10-25T03:14:27Z")
art is the skilled practiced efforts of a person to impress, expand and develop the appreciation of true beauty on the part of the viewer. art is in the pants of the beholder. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/12 "2012-10-25T03:48:37Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > But I’m sure ballet is exempt from taxes because, like in Australia, it doesn’t actually make any profit but subsists on grants, endowments and public funding. Seems to be the same deal with several other art forms that meet with the approval of the people who control the purse strings. Many lap dancers have [del]endowments[/del] are well endowed. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/13 "2012-10-25T04:45:55Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Many lap dancers have [del]endowments[/del] are well endowed. They’re funded by donations 😃 Now, how to turn this into a church… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lap-dances-are-not-art/638713/14 "2012-10-27T01:45:48Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > Now, how to turn this into a church… [These guys may have some ideas about that.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609964)