# LAPD as judge, jury, and executioner **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787 "2013-02-09T15:07:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/101 "2013-02-10T19:41:35Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Is it possible that something good will come out of this killing spree? Like punishing bad cops and putting some accountability back in the department? Nothing that justifies the killing of [this actual real life person](http://images.smh.com.au/2013/02/08/4015095/quan-353-300x0.jpg) in cold blood for nothing she did whatsoever. > [@Pedro](#): > > Is it possible Dorner was a Good Man™ before the LAPD kicked him around? The second he murdered innocent civilians, anything he used to be became entirely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/102 "2013-02-10T21:08:22Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > [Police seeking Dorner opened fire in a second case of mistaken identity](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story) > Here is another one. > [@](#): > > “Nobody trains police officers to look for one of their own,” said Maria Haberfeld, a police training professor Well, if they’re not going to learn to track down cops, I suppose it would be considered racist to train them to tell the difference between white people and black people. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/103 "2013-02-10T21:19:15Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > Might make great ad copy. “See that shit? They lived. Toyota.” Well played sir. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/104 "2013-02-10T22:07:57Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Can we drop this “advocate” bull? I don’t know details and don’t particularly care but it’s obvious from Dorner’s manifest that he holds some kind of grudge against Quan for defending the interests of the LAPD (blue line) while representing him. No, I won’t drop it. Right now I don’t give a flying fuck what this asshole’s opinions are of the LAPD considering that he thinks a totally justified way to get his point across is to murder a woman who had fuck-all to do with it. At this point, he could be campaigning against the Westboro Baptist “Church” and I’d still have to question his reasoning and motives. Maybe someone who doesn’t murder innocent women as part of their argument can come forward and make a case instead. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/105 "2013-02-10T22:12:32Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > No, I won’t drop it. Right now I don’t give a flying fuck what this asshole’s opinions are of the LAPD considering that he thinks a totally justified way to get his point across is to murder a woman who had fuck-all to do with it. At this point, he could be campaigning against the Westboro Baptist “Church” and I’d still have to question his reasoning and motives. Maybe someone who doesn’t murder innocent women as part of their argument can come forward and make an argument instead. Haha. I just find your post a funny mix of illogical and indignant. It’s cute. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/106 "2013-02-10T22:19:18Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Haha. I just find your post a funny mix of illogical and indignant. It’s cute. Right, people’s condemnation of murder is illogical and indignant, you empathize with the murder and you assume he has a legitimate grievance. But you’re not defending him or trying to get on anybody’s nerves. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/107 "2013-02-10T22:22:49Z")
I have one thought about the whole general story: when you start murdering innocent people, you’re probably not going to get the benefit of the doubt about whatever you did to get fired. > [@RickJay](#): > > I, too, am curious as to why attempted murder charges aren’t being sent to a grand jury. It was 5 am, so it probably wasn’t quite as obvious that the truck that got lit up wasn’t grey. While intent transfers (eg., criminal intent to kill one person is sufficient to justify a murder charge if you kill the wrong one), the rules for attempted murder are a bit different. In any event, it usually takes more than a day or two for a grand jury to be empanelled. > [@Pedro](#): > > Is it possible that something good will come out of this killing spree? Like punishing bad cops and putting some accountability back in the department? If Dorner wanted attention for his wrongful termination, he could have gotten it in a hundred less evil ways. Call the media and tell them you’re on a hunger strike. File a federal lawsuit. Whatever. > [@](#): > > Is it possible Dorner was a Good Man™ before the LAPD kicked him around? Good Men don’t spend five years planning a spate of revenge killings because they got fired from a job. He’s a sociopath; he gunned down the daughter of his labor advocate because he was mad at the advocate. No consideration of the fact that _she_ was entirely innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/108 "2013-02-10T22:25:56Z")
I’m certainly not going to defend this looney, but I think it might be possible that his “advocate” may very well have been more concerned with the LAPD’s concerns than Dorner’s. I have no idea if that’s true or not, but it may have been Dorner’s perception of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/109 "2013-02-10T22:34:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Right, people’s condemnation of murder is illogical and indignant, you empathize with the murder and you assume he has a legitimate grievance. But you’re not defending him or trying to get on anybody’s nerves. By all means carry on condemning. What’s illogical is to say this guy is an asshole murderer so I I’ll keep making a statement that doesn’t fit the facts of the case (Dorner killed the daughter of his own “advocate”). But then you’ve already showed you can’t read for comprehension, so I don’t expect you to understand that either. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/110 "2013-02-10T22:36:00Z")
Uh… that’s exactly what happened. He killed the daughter of the retired police chief who represented him in his disciplinary proceeding. Which of the words is tripping you up? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/111 "2013-02-10T22:40:36Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > By all means carry on condemning. > > What’s illogical is to say this guy is an asshole murderer so I I’ll keep making a statement that doesn’t fit the facts of the case (Dorner killed the daughter of his own “advocate”). > > But then you’ve already showed you can’t read for comprehension, so I don’t expect you to understand that either. What do you call a murderer who writes a multi-page manifesto detailing the ills of our society in magnificent detail? A murderer. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/112 "2013-02-10T22:40:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Uh… that’s exactly what happened. He killed the daughter of the retired police chief who represented him in his disciplinary proceeding. Which of the words is tripping you up? Representing and advocating are different words. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/113 "2013-02-10T22:45:02Z")
I was gonna go car shopping, but now, I think I’ll stay inside the house. :eek: I suspect the LAPD will shoot another random innocent person or two before this is done. Probably they’re telling themselves “Don’t shoot unless the target’s black!” I don’t doubt that there continues to be racism and corruption in general in the LAPD. So what? Dorner’s job, as a man, as a black man especially, is to do the best he can for himself and his family. If that required him to relocate to Atlanta, for example, where the cops are largely black, including the top brass, so be it. Attacking the LAPD only takes time and energy away from Dorner doing positive things to improve his life. Destroying the lives of his erstwhile enemies does nothing to improve his own life. So Dorner’s a fool, and has some sort of severe personality disorder. Racism in the LAPD aside, this is probably what caused him to fail in his attempt join the LAPD. It appears that he’ll go down in a blaze of glory after a manhunt covered by national and world news outlets. Dorner does not deserve this degree of respect or this level attention. I know LA county sheriffs and LAPD. Black. They’ve experienced racism in their jobs, from their coworkers, from the higher ups, from the public. It happens. What they haven’t done is let their negative experiences destroy them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/114 "2013-02-10T22:48:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Representing and advocating are different words. Idiot. Oh, well then I guess he’s totally justified in killing the guy’s daughter. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/115 "2013-02-10T22:49:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I have one thought about the whole general story: when you start murdering innocent people, you’re probably not going to get the benefit of the doubt about whatever you did to get fired. > > It was 5 am, so it probably wasn’t quite as obvious that the truck that got lit up wasn’t grey. It also wasn’t the right kind of truck, and the occupants did not remotely fit the description of the suspect. Are they just blasting away at random vehicles? Seriously, just how monumentally do the police have to fuck up before someone does something? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/116 "2013-02-10T22:51:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, well then I guess he’s totally justified in killing the guy’s daughter. My mistake. Is anyone saying that? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/117 "2013-02-10T22:58:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It also wasn’t the right kind of truck, and the occupants did not remotely fit the description of the suspect. Are they just blasting away at random vehicles? Seriously, just how monumentally do the police have to fuck up before someone does something? From the placement of the bulletholes, it appears the cops were behind the truck, so they presumably couldn’t see the occupants. I certainly hope criminal charges are filed; I just don’t think it will be attempted murder. > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Is anyone saying that? **Pedro** appears to be (while denying that he actually feels that way). ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/118 "2013-02-10T22:59:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Pedro** appears to be (while denying that he actually feels that way). Where? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/119 "2013-02-10T23:08:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What do you call a murderer who writes a multi-page manifesto detailing the ills of our society in magnificent detail? > > A murderer. And I have already said a few times that he should be tried as such. So what is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/120 "2013-02-10T23:22:14Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Representing and advocating are different words. Idiot. Yes. They are, in fact, different words. Their definitions, though, are somewhat similar. One could even say they are synonyms. (one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses) \*Representative a person or thing that represents another or others. ADVOCATE a person who pleads for or in behalf of another; intercessor\* So in this case, the man was an advocate and a representative because their official meanings (in the send of the LAPD process) are pretty much the same. Now he could have been a poor, compromised or incompetent advocate but your insistence that he was NOT an advocate but only a representative is without foundation. I know, I know…it’s lame to break out dictionary definitions. But in this case, it seems appropriate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787.md?page=7)