# LAPD as judge, jury, and executioner **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787 "2013-02-09T15:07:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/121 "2013-02-10T23:26:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Pedro** appears to be (while denying that he actually feels that way). That’s a pathetic attempt at demonizing someone. I won’t even say demonizing the opposition because I’m not at all sure how I’m opposing any position you may hold. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/122 "2013-02-10T23:41:23Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > So in this case, the man was an advocate and a representative because their official meanings (in the send of the LAPD process) are pretty much the same. > > Now he could have been a poor, compromised or incompetent advocate but your insistence that he was NOT an advocate but only a representative is without foundation. > > I know, I know…it’s lame to break out dictionary definitions. But in this case, it seems appropriate. Are you serious? I’m not contesting the official LAPD designation or anyone’s competence. The point is that Dorner perceives Quan as representing him while advocating for the LAPD. That makes him an asshole murderer who kills the daughter of people he perceives as morally corrupt instead of an asshole murder who kills the daughter of his friends. Clear now? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/123 "2013-02-10T23:58:57Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Are you serious? > > I’m not contesting the official LAPD designation or anyone’s competence. > > The point is that Dorner perceives Quan as representing him while advocating for the LAPD. > > That makes him an asshole murderer who kills the daughter of people he perceives as morally corrupt instead of an asshole murder who kills the daughter of his friends. > > Clear now? Asshole murderer. Check. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/124 "2013-02-11T00:03:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Asshole murderer. Check. Are you drunk, or something? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/125 "2013-02-11T00:14:35Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Haha. I just find your post a funny mix of illogical and indignant. It’s cute. Whatever makes you happy, man; if you love semantic/philosophic quibbles that much, have at it. I was just using an official term and you got all bent out of shape. It’s like saying “OMG he so wasn’t a judge because he wasn’t impartial and had already decided!!1” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/126 "2013-02-11T00:16:39Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > That makes him an asshole murderer who kills the daughter of people he perceives as morally corrupt instead of an asshole murder who kills the daughter of his friends. And since he’s a psycho on a killing spree, this distinction exists only in his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/127 "2013-02-11T00:27:11Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Whatever makes you happy, man; if you love semantic/philosophic quibbles that much, have at it. I was just using an official term and you got all bent out of shape. It’s like saying “OMG he so wasn’t a judge because he wasn’t impartial and had already decided!!1” Have you got a citation for advocate being an official term? I was making a factual correction. You’re the one who got all bent out of shape. And it’s nothing like saying that whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/128 "2013-02-11T00:35:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And since he’s a psycho on a killing spree, this distinction exists only in his mind. Yeah, like I said, black and white. Your opinion is not even supported by the legal system but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/129 "2013-02-11T00:44:35Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Yeah, like I said, black and white. Your opinion is not even supported by the legal system but whatever. Actually, shooting them for a specific reason, targeting them in particular, is premeditation. Much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/130 "2013-02-11T00:45:58Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Your opinion is not even supported by the legal system but whatever. I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean, but I’m sure it’s brilliant. Is it something like ‘He’s not killing at random, he’s killing the family members of an advocate who he believes did a bad job! That makes much more sense, so stop slandering him?’ The man took it upon himself to start murdering people over a perceived injustice. He is, to return to the thread title, acting as judge, jury and executioner to punish someone who has already died. So we know there is a rationale for the killings in his mind, but that doesn’t mean the rationale has anything to do with reality. He doesn’t think he’s killing at random, but that’s pretty much what he had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/131 "2013-02-11T00:51:18Z")
Wait, so someone is uppity about the fact Dorner’s “advocate” as the guy would be called in the media and probably in the transcripts of his disciplinary hearing is possibly more of a shill for the LAPD than for the guy who he is supposed to be acting as advocate for? Okay…so…how does that change anything? Dorner still killed two people that had nothing to do with his disciplinary hearing. Or is **Pedro** even more upset that people are **calling Quan Dorner’s advocate?** If so that’s even more nonsensical, since that is what all the news reports have called him. No one is making any affirmation about Quan’s performance in that role or whose interests he was protecting, they’re just repeating what has been said in the media. It’s just conversational. If you want to have a discussion on whether retired police officers who worked for the LAPD make good impartial advocates for police officers facing disciplinary action, sure open up that line of debate. But it has nothing to do with the morality of Dorner’s actions, he killed two people. It was not in self defense. It was premeditated, he was lying in wait. It basically hit on all the aggravating factors of murder that make it an even more serious crime in most states (premeditation, lying in wait, multiple victims.) About all he missed out on in terms of aggravation was combining it with a sexual assault or kidnapping. Either way, what he did is both extremely illegal and immoral, and simply not justifiable. It does not matter at all if Quan intentionally screwed Dorner to make sure he lost his job, it doesn’t even matter if Quan was a huge asshole who rubbed it in Dorner’s face as he was derelict in his duty to advocate for Dorner. None of that justifies **killing two totally different people**. Of course, it would not justify killing Quan either. That whole line of discussion is a side issue to Dorner’s murders. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/132 "2013-02-11T00:52:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Actually, shooting them for a specific reason, targeting them in particular, is premeditation. Much worse. Ok. So you agree there is a distinction. Good. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/133 "2013-02-11T01:01:01Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Wait, so someone is uppity about the fact Dorner’s “advocate” as the guy would be called in the media and probably in the transcripts of his disciplinary hearing is possibly more of a shill for the LAPD than for the guy who he is supposed to be acting as advocate for? Okay…so…how does that change anything? Dorner still killed two people that had nothing to do with his disciplinary hearing. Or is **Pedro** even more upset that people are **calling Quan Dorner’s advocate?** If so that’s even more nonsensical, since that is what all the news reports have called him. No one is making any affirmation about Quan’s performance in that role or whose interests he was protecting, they’re just repeating what has been said in the media. It’s just conversational. > > If you want to have a discussion on whether retired police officers who worked for the LAPD make good impartial advocates for police officers facing disciplinary action, sure open up that line of debate. But it has nothing to do with the morality of Dorner’s actions, he killed two people. It was not in self defense. It was premeditated, he was lying in wait. It basically hit on all the aggravating factors of murder that make it an even more serious crime in most states (premeditation, lying in wait, multiple victims.) About all he missed out on in terms of aggravation was combining it with a sexual assault or kidnapping. Either way, what he did is both extremely illegal and immoral, and simply not justifiable. It does not matter at all if Quan intentionally screwed Dorner to make sure he lost his job, it doesn’t even matter if Quan was a huge asshole who rubbed it in Dorner’s face as he was derelict in his duty to advocate for Dorner. None of that justifies **killing two totally different people**. > > Of course, it would not justify killing Quan either. That whole line of discussion is a side issue to Dorner’s murders. Who is saying anything about the morality of the murders or whether or not they are justified? It’s possible to think this guy is an amoral murderer, while also wondering what lies below the surface of this story. Is the LAPD as crooked as this guy is saying, or is he a paranoid schizophrenic? Why the hell is everyone getting so bent out of shape about that kind of question? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/134 "2013-02-11T01:03:42Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > That’s a pathetic attempt at demonizing someone. I won’t even say demonizing the opposition because I’m not at all sure how I’m opposing any position you may hold. My “position”, such as it is, is that it’s completely unimportant whether the guy whose daughter got killed is an “advocate” or a “representative”. Quite aside from the fact that there is no relevant distinction between the terms, he killed someone who had nothing to do with the affair at all. You seem to believe that there is some sort of line to be drawn here - one important enough that failing to do so is “illogical”. Perhaps you have some motivation beyond excusing the murder to some degree, but nobody seems to know what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/135 "2013-02-11T01:04:51Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Who is saying anything about the morality of the murders or whether or not they are justified? It’s possible to think this guy is an amoral murderer, while also wondering what lies below the surface of this story. Is the LAPD as crooked as this guy is saying, or is he a paranoid schizophrenic? Why the hell is everyone getting so bent out of shape about that kind of question? What’s it matter? Very few people who do stuff like this don’t have some genesis in “reasonable cause to be angry.” The whole point of being part of civilized society is you do not get to resolve your anger, no matter how justified, into violence. The kids at Columbine were bullied, Malik Hasan felt beefs over his country’s and his military’s treatment of his coreligionists, the 9/11 hijackers felt the United States had encroached on sacred Muslim territory and were undermining Muslim societies. None of these people had totally invalid beefs, but their actions were all equally invalid. Once you start killing people because you’re angry then it is irrelevant whether or not what you did was the result of some legitimate beef you had. ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/136 "2013-02-11T01:13:02Z")
There is now a one million dollar bounty. So in addition to the LAPD making near fatal mistakes we can now count on many civilians possibly making the same mistakes. The civilian mishaps could be justifiable for such a large reward. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/137 "2013-02-11T01:15:08Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Who is saying anything about the morality of the murders or whether or not they are justified? It’s possible to think this guy is an amoral murderer, while also wondering what lies below the surface of this story. Is the LAPD as crooked as this guy is saying, or is he a paranoid schizophrenic? Why the hell is everyone getting so bent out of shape about that kind of question? Because it is a stupid question only an insensitive callous asshole would ask. Dorner is a psycho murderer. That’s it. Full stop. The LAPD has nothing to do with this. If he had been fired from mid-state auto supply, we’d be reading headlines about how the daughter of Mid-states HR department head had been killed by a disgruntled ex employee. If he was really in a war against the police, why didn’t he target police officers, instead of a college coach and her fiancee? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/138 "2013-02-11T01:21:54Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What’s it matter? Very few people who do stuff like this don’t have some genesis in “reasonable cause to be angry.” The whole point of being part of civilized society is you do not get to resolve your anger, no matter how justified, into violence. The kids at Columbine were bullied, Malik Hasan felt beefs over his country’s and his military’s treatment of his coreligionists, the 9/11 hijackers felt the United States had encroached on sacred Muslim territory and were undermining Muslim societies. None of these people had totally invalid beefs, but their actions were all equally invalid. > > Once you start killing people because you’re angry then it is irrelevant whether or not what you did was the result of some legitimate beef you had. For the hundredth time, nobody is arguing that his actions were valid. Why do you keep bringing that up? We know his actions are inexcusable. We know he’s a murderer. That was resolved 4 threads ago. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/139 "2013-02-11T01:24:08Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Because it is a stupid question only an insensitive callous asshole would ask. Bullshit. Nobody is excusing what he did. If that question was asked in the first thread about the murders, you’d have a point. This is the 3rd or 4th, and we’ve all agreed that the guy is scum for what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787/140 "2013-02-11T01:25:20Z")
I don’t blame you if you’re ignoring **Pedro** ’s posts, **Labrador Deceiver** , but the backhanded excuses are hard to miss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lapd-as-judge-jury-and-executioner/649787.md?page=8)