# Large dose of radiation causes sour taste and vomiting. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 24, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831 "2010-11-24T23:59:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/1 "2010-11-24T23:59:59Z")
From the wikipedia page on [Louis Slotin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Slotin#The_criticality_accident): Louis Slotin was exposed to “a lethal dose (around 2100 rems, or 21 Sv) of neutron and gamma radiation.” It also says “Slotin experienced a sour taste in his mouth and an intense burning sensation in his left hand,” and “As soon as Slotin left the building, he vomited, a common reaction from exposure to extremely intense ionizing radiation.” My (feeble) understanding of radiation is that it damages the DNA in cells, which then can’t reproduce properly. How does radiation have such immediate effects such as “a sour taste” and vomiting? What causes these? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/2 "2010-11-25T00:25:24Z")
A quick Google search found this: > [@](#): > > The **GI syndrome** is the dominant manifestation after whole-body doses of about 6 to 30 Gy. Prodromal symptoms, often marked, develop within about 1 h and resolve within 2 days. During the latent period of 4 to 5 days, GI mucosal cells die. Cell death is followed by intractable nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, which lead to severe dehydration and electrolyte imbalances, diminished plasma volume, and vascular collapse. Necrosis of intestine may also occur, predisposing to bacteremia and sepsis. Death is common. Patients receiving \> 10 Gy may have cerebrovascular symptoms (suggesting a lethal dose). Survivors also have the hematopoietic syndrome. From here —\> [http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec21/ch317/ch317a.html](http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec21/ch317/ch317a.html) Best to read the entire article. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/3 "2010-11-25T01:22:28Z")
Well, that article mentions the nausea and vomiting, but doesn’t really say _why._ What about radiation makes your tongue think “that taste funny” and your stomach to say “that it, I’m getting rid of this stuff.” How do they even know anything happened? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/4 "2010-11-25T01:25:29Z")
It says why. “During the latent period of 4 to 5 days, GI mucosal cells die.” ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/5 "2010-11-25T02:28:18Z")
The cell lining your gut and mouth reproduce incredibly quickly. They are being shed and replaced constantly. That’s a major reason why wounds in the mouth heal so fast. As you note, radiation stops cells from reproducing. So as the cells try to divide and fail to do so, they die. The dead cells then digest themselves, and the digestion products produce a sour taste. The vomiting is caused because the cells of the gut have died. That damages the ability of the gut to regulate water flow in and out of the gut. The body assumes that water imbalance is caused by a bacterial infection, and responds by initiating nausea and vomiting to expel the material. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/6 "2010-11-25T02:36:23Z")
But can this happen near-instantaneously, as in the described case? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/7 "2010-11-25T02:39:39Z")
Clearly it can, because the evidence is that it did. The symptoms of burns can develop nearly instantaneously, can’t they? So why not the symptoms of massive irradiation? ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/8 "2010-11-25T03:01:20Z")
The immediate effects are due to direct damage to the central nervous system. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/9 "2010-11-25T03:07:46Z")
This is so sad. I never knew how radiation poisoning worked. Would it be possible, assuming future technology, to do anything to prevent this kind of death? Would you basically need to transplant your brain into a whole new body? Would that even work or do brain cells die too? Is there any way to suck out the radiation after the fact, or has the damage already been done and death is just an eventuality? ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/10 "2010-11-25T03:13:01Z")
Nope. If you vomit after being irradiated, you gonna die. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/11 "2010-11-25T03:26:29Z")
Slotin apparently absorbed enough ionizing radiation to kill cells outright. DNA is not the only substance in the cell that can be damaged by radiation; if enough cellular machinery is disrupted the cell can’t recover and will die. Plain old heat does the same thing, killing cells by breaking chemical bonds which wrecks proteins and cell membranes. So Slotin could have had cells actively dying within minutes of his radiation dose. As for the sour taste in his mouth - that could have been from stimulation of taste buds or smell receptors as they got cooked, or heck it could have been from something randomly firing in his brain. Let’s not forget a possible psychosomatic response to a dawning realization that he was a walking dead man. I know that kind of mental shock would make me want to puke. ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/12 "2010-11-25T03:32:45Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Nope. If you vomit after being irradiated, you gonna die. Also, the higher the dose of radiation received, the more quickly the vomiting starts. Onset of vomiting can be used as a rough indicator of dose received. At high doses, the whole body is affected, including the central nervous system. In the case of one criticality accident at Los Alamos, the Cecil Kelley case, the person exposed was dead within 48 hours. [CDC fact sheet on Acute Radiation Syndrome](http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/arsphysicianfactsheet.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/13 "2010-11-25T03:59:27Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > But can this happen near-instantaneously, as in the described case? Yes. When I said that the epidermal cells divide incredibly quickly, I meant it. The generation time is a little less than 24 hours, slightly quicker in the mouth than in the gut. Assuming Slotin’s symptoms appeared within 20 minutes, well, there are a couple of million cells produced in the mouth in 20 minutes, and tens of millions in the gut. > [@UDS](#): > > The symptoms of burns can develop nearly instantaneously, can’t they? So why not the symptoms of massive irradiation? Because they are very different types of burns. Heat burns cause damage by destroying the structure of proteins and rupturing cell membranes. In contrast classic radiation burns are caused by damage to the machinery the cell uses to divide. So you would only expect symptoms to show when large numbers of cells have tried to divide and failed. So it is surprising that symptoms can be expressed so fast if you don’t realise how fast cells are dividing in the gut. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/14 "2010-11-25T04:07:00Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Nope. If you vomit after being irradiated, you gonna die. No, that isn’t true. Nausea and vomiting are common symptoms of even mild radiation exposure. They indicate an unhealthy exposure, but they sure don’t indicate death. Heck, a lot of patients undergoing radiation therapy for cancer experience nausea and vomiting. They don’t usually die. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/15 "2010-11-25T04:13:16Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > No, that isn’t true. Nausea and vomiting are common symptoms of even mild radiation exposure. They indicate an unhealthy exposure, but they sure don’t indicate death. Heck, a lot of patients undergoing radiation therapy for cancer experience nausea and vomiting. They don’t usually die. Ok: if you vomit within minutes of irradiation, said vomiting being caused by the irradiation and not psychosomatic, you gonna die. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/16 "2010-11-25T04:18:27Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Because they are very different types of burns. Heat burns cause damage by destroying the structure of proteins and rupturing cell membranes. In contrast classic radiation burns are caused by damage to the machinery the cell uses to divide. So you would only expect symptoms to show when large numbers of cells have tried to divide and failed. So it is surprising that symptoms can be expressed so fast if you don’t realise how fast cells are dividing in the gut. The immediate effects are due to disruption of nervous system vasculature and cellular chemistry, not loss of cells due to failure of division. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/17 "2010-11-25T04:23:29Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > This is so sad. I never knew how radiation poisoning worked. > > Would it be possible, assuming future technology, to do anything to prevent this kind of death? Would you basically need to transplant your brain into a whole new body? Would that even work or do brain cells die too? > > Is there any way to suck out the radiation after the fact, or has the damage already been done and death is just an eventuality? Nope, at this level of exposure, you are dead. All the DNA in the body has been scrambled. That includes the brain tissue. No matter what you do, no part of the body remains viable. The only way you could correct the problem would be to suck out the nucleus of each cell individually and replace it. That might be possible at some distant future date, but at the moment it’s just fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/18 "2010-11-25T04:30:50Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > The immediate effects are due to disruption of nervous system vasculature and cellular chemistry, not loss of cells due to failure of division. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![pericynthion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85e7bf/32.png) [@pericynthion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pericynthion)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/19 "2010-11-25T04:33:52Z")
I can imagine that the sour taste might be caused by ionization of water or other molecules in the saliva. (Just a guess) ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831/20 "2010-11-25T04:36:22Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Cite? Chapter 3 [here](http://books.google.com/books?id=yjSS4W0oV_UC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=acute+neurovascular+syndrome&source=bl&ots=aW4KLBRH9i&sig=-z69XKBvR1mF4FML6f1WK5hJK0A&hl=en&ei=IdPtTKfGEMWBlAe52uS_DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=acute%20neurovascular%20syndrome&f=false) is a good one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/large-dose-of-radiation-causes-sour-taste-and-vomiting-why/561831.md?page=2)