# Largely lacklustre directors who've nonetheless made one or two gems **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608 "2010-05-24T19:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/41 "2010-05-25T06:37:08Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > I couldn’t possibly disagree more. They are the defiition of middlebrow, self-serious, personality-free filmmaking. _Splash_ is the exception–full of vim and vitality–but the historical dramas in particular are colorless and bland. All you have to do is compare them to _The Right Stuff, Raging Bull_ or _All the President’s Men_ to highlight the difference between provocative and creative storytelling on one hand and overly-reverent, boring hagiography on the other. Yeah, well, what about _Coccoon_? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/42 "2010-05-25T06:40:10Z")
James Cameron. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/43 "2010-05-25T06:48:30Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > James Cameron. \ \ \ Ladies & gentlemen, we have a winnnnnnaaah! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/44 "2010-05-25T06:58:59Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Yeah, well, what about _Coccoon_? Cute and utterly dispensable. Like most of his films, it’s well cast, so rides a wave of good will based on our affinity with some likable performers. But nobody brings out more lazy performances from dependable actors than Howard–Russell Crowe in particular. _Cocoon_ is also, like a lot of his films, brazenly sentimental. There’s often quite a bit of inherent drama and power in the stories he chooses, but he can’t help but milking every last drop in a way that I find insulting and tedious as a viewer. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/45 "2010-05-25T07:36:06Z")
Ron Howard learned a lot from watching Spielberg, is all I can say. That’s another guy who will manufacture and milk sentiment in his movies like there was a worldwide shortage. Fortunately for us, they both do make okay movies most of the time, and once or twice have been brilliant. Okay, maybe 3 times for Steve. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/46 "2010-05-25T08:23:13Z")
You know what my favourite Ron Howard movie is? _ **Willow**._ I’m not even kidding. Loved it as a kid, love it now. How about \*\*Michael Curtiz \*\*? Sure, he’s got some acclaimed gems, directed Errol Flynn’s _Robin Hood_ and James Cagney in _Angels with dirty faces_, but would have gone off in film history as just a competent studio man if it wasn’t for _Casablanca_. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/47 "2010-05-25T08:31:36Z")
The title immediately made me think of [Lee Tamahori](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0848414/), who made several bad action movies (Die Another Day, XXX 2) and other derided crap like Next and The Edge, as his followup to the absolutely stunning indie drama _Once Were Warriors_. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/48 "2010-05-25T11:26:15Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > You know what my favourite Ron Howard movie is? > > _ **Willow**._ > > I’m not even kidding. Loved it as a kid, love it now. > How about \*\*Michael Curtiz \*\*? Sure, he’s got some acclaimed gems, directed Errol Flynn’s _Robin Hood_ and James Cagney in _Angels with dirty faces_, but would have gone off in film history as just a competent studio man if it wasn’t for _Casablanca_. You forgot _Yankee Doodle Dandy_, as fine a piece of High Hollywood Corn as ever made. ---
**Author:** ![Rrose\_Selavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bcef8e/32.png) [@Rrose\_Selavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rrose_Selavy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/49 "2010-05-25T12:29:12Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > What good movie has he made? You decide: > [@](#): > > Writer/director\*\* > The Producers (1968) (Academy Award, best original screenplay\*\*) > The Twelve Chairs (1970) (also actor) > Blazing Saddles (1974) (also actor) > Young Frankenstein (1974) > Silent Movie (1976) (also actor) > High Anxiety (1977) (also actor/producer) > History of the World, Part I (1981) (also actor/producer) > Spaceballs (1987) (also actor/producer) > Life Stinks (1991) (also actor/producer) > Robin Hood: Men in Tights (1993) (also actor/producer) > Dracula: Dead and Loving It (1995) (also actor/producer) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/50 "2010-05-25T12:34:04Z")
I despise Joel Schumacher, his moves, and the ground he walks on… but \*\*Falling Down \*\*was pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/51 "2010-05-25T12:39:48Z")
Richard Kelly - Donnie Darko Kurt Wimmer - Equilibrium Ted Domme - Blow (unless you liked Martin Lawrence/Eddie Murphy in Life) ---
**Author:** ![Rrose\_Selavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bcef8e/32.png) [@Rrose\_Selavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rrose_Selavy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/52 "2010-05-25T12:41:09Z")
On Performance , it’s not so much Cammel was a mostly lacklustre director, as the OP seeks but more that he directed so few films anyway, whatever their quality. Maybe it’s more obscure over in the States but here in the UK it’s considered a cult classic. > [@](#): > > On its release the film received mixed reviews. Most reviewers focused on the graphic sexual elements. One reviewer (Richard Schickel) described it as “the most completely worthless film I have seen since I began reviewing.” > > Throughout the late 1970s and 1980s, Performance gradually acquired a cult following on the late night and repertory cinema circuits. By the 1990s the film had undergone a complete critical reappraisal. In 1995 Performance appeared at number 28 in a Time Out magazine “all-time greats” poll of critics and directors. After Cammell’s death in 1996 the film’s reputation grew still further. It is now frequently cited as a classic of British cinema. > > According to the website They Shoot Pictures, Don’t They, which collects ranking from various critics and best-of lists, Performance, as of January 2008 is ranked 188th in the 1,000 Greatest Films of All Time.[3] > > In the September/October 2009 issue of Film Comment, Mick Jagger’s Turner was voted the best performance by a musician in a film.[4] ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/53 "2010-05-25T14:19:05Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > the historical dramas in particular are colorless and bland. All you have to do is compare them to _The Right Stuff, Raging Bull_ or _All the President’s Men_ to highlight the difference between provocative and creative storytelling on one hand and overly-reverent, boring hagiography on the other. I would have argued in favor of Ron Howard’s movies, but find this refutation compelling. I’m not entirely convinced it’s fair to say that just because his movies aren’t (nearly) as provocative or creative as Raging Bull, All the President’s Men or The Right Stuff they’re by definition middlebrow and personailty-free, but I’ll grant that his efforts clearly suffer by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/54 "2010-05-25T14:27:49Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > How about \*\*Michael Curtiz \*\*? Sure, he’s got some acclaimed gems, directed Errol Flynn’s _Robin Hood_ and James Cagney in _Angels with dirty faces_, but would have gone off in film history as just a competent studio man if it wasn’t for _Casablanca_. Not at ALL. \*Casablanca \*may be the one that’s remained the most popular, but Curtiz is definitely considered one of the major directors of his era. His reputation as a director of action/adventure movies was–is!–nearly unparalleled. Just a cherrypicking of my own favorites, taken from a list of 173 director credits (according to IMDB): _ **Captain Blood** _ (1935) _ **The Charge of the Light Brigade** _ (1936) _ **Kid Galahad** _ (1937) _ **The Adventures of Robin Hood** _ (1938) _ **Angels with Dirty Faces** _ (1938) _ **Dodge City** _ (1939) _ **The Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex** _ (1939) _ **The Sea Hawk** _ (1940) _ **The Sea Wolf** _ (1941) _ **Mildred Pierce** _ (1945) \*\*\*My Dream Is Yours \*\*\* (1949) _ **Flamingo Road** _ (1949) _ **White Christmas** _ (1954) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/55 "2010-05-25T14:37:13Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I would have argued in favor of Ron Howard’s movies, but find this refutation compelling. > > I’m not entirely convinced it’s fair to say that just because his movies aren’t (nearly) as provocative or creative as Raging Bull, All the President’s Men or The Right Stuff they’re by definition middlebrow and personailty-free, but I’ll grant that his efforts clearly suffer by comparison. No, but it’s fair to say it the other way around–Ron Howard’s movies are middlebrow and personality free, and then point out other films as examples of how similar themes have been handled with far greater creativity and vitality. I find Ron Howard’s films insultingly patronizing and dishonest; he’s more interested in comforting the audience, assuring them that everything is just fine the way it is, just go back to sleep, there there, than he is in honestly examining whatever subject he’s working with. All of his movies feel like they’re products of marketing committees, with an eye toward finding the lowest common denominator so that the greatest number of people can swallow it without even engaging their throat muscles; to slide down the throat without you hardly noticing. Obviously I’m hyperbolizing, but Ron Howard’s films make me think of the kind of Soviet propaganda films whose only purpose was to assure the masses that everything was just fine, go back to work. Only they’re propaganda for the modern American status quo. Shudder. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/56 "2010-05-25T14:43:14Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > **Andrew Davis** did the suspenseful hit _The Fugitive_ and had a minor hit with _Under Siege_ AKA Die Hard on a Battleship AKA The only good Steven Segal movie AKA Why the hell don’t Erika Eleniak’s boobs jiggle in the slightest. > > The rest of his output is pretty meh. I’ll watch any Andrew Davis film. I think he’s one of today’s top 2 or 3 action directors. Plus, hello? _ **Holes** _? Come on. Davis made Segal watchable, and has even made a movie in which the combined suckitude of Kevin Costner and Ashton Fuckin Kutcher did not manage to ruin it. I say Davis has very few holes (!) in his resume, chief among those being _ **A Perfect Murder.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/57 "2010-05-25T15:34:27Z")
> [@Rrose\_Selavy](#): > > On Performance , it’s not so much Cammel was a mostly lacklustre director, as the OP seeks but more that he directed so few films anyway, whatever their quality. > > Maybe it’s more obscure over in the States but here in the UK it’s considered a cult classic. Very obscure in the States, but look at the subject matter: the film is pretty much a look at the changes and morphing that the UK’s various subcultures were undergoing during the late 1960s. I know there was more than that to the plot, but that’s the overarching setting for the film, and I doubt US audiences at the time were able to connect much to it. Fast forward 20 or 30 or (gasp! how did this happen??) 40 years, and we’re now talking about things that aren’t even ancient history to most people, they are simply unknown. It’s like trying to watch _Blow-Up_ today, with an American audience. They just aren’t going to “get” a lot of the cultural stuff because it’s old and from a (similar but) different country. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/58 "2010-05-25T15:51:38Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > I couldn’t possibly disagree more. They are the defiition of middlebrow, self-serious, personality-free filmmaking. _Splash_ is the exception–full of vim and vitality–but the historical dramas in particular are colorless and bland. All you have to do is compare them to _The Right Stuff, Raging Bull_ or _All the President’s Men_ to highlight the difference between provocative and creative storytelling on one hand and overly-reverent, boring hagiography on the other. Agreed. There is no comparison between **The Right Stuff** (one of my ten favorite films ever) and **Apollo 13**. (Not that **Apollo 13** ’s a bad movie. Basically, **Apollo 13** is to **The Right Stuff** as **The Godfather** is to **Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels**.) ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/59 "2010-05-25T15:53:03Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Yeah, well, what about _Coccoon_? Very affecting. But safe, and middlebrow. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/60 "2010-05-25T15:54:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Ron Howard learned a lot from watching Spielberg, is all I can say. That’s another guy who will manufacture and milk sentiment in his movies like there was a worldwide shortage. > > Fortunately for us, they both do make okay movies most of the time, and once or twice have been brilliant. Okay, maybe 3 times for Steve. Now you just sound dumb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608.md?page=4)