# Largely lacklustre directors who've nonetheless made one or two gems **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608 "2010-05-24T19:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/81 "2010-05-25T19:25:36Z")
FWIW, in my opinion\*\*\* Lassie Come Home\*\*\* is a better movie that _ **Forbidden Planet** _, although there’s no question which is the more seminal. And Nyby really shouldn’t get any real credit for _ **The Thing** _, except as a good sport. He himself admits that Hawks just put Nyby’s name on the production because scifi was a tainted genre, and an A-list director like Hawks just had no business dabbling in it. An fortunate thing, but there it is. I assume it was the studio who refused to put Hawks’s name on the movie, and not Hawks himself, but that part is not clear. What makes it a little more puzzling is that Robert Wise was openly credited for his direction of _ **The Day the Earth Stood Still** _ the same year. But his real A-list work came afterward; in 1951 he was not in the same class as Hawks, who had already given us \*\*\*Scarface, Red River, The Big Sleep, To Have and Have Not, Sergeant York, His Girl Friday, \*\*\*and \*\*\*Only Angels Have Wings, \*\*\*to name just a few. Wise’s biggest titles–_ **The Sound of Music, The Haunting, West Side Story** _–were still years in the future. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/82 "2010-05-25T19:25:54Z")
> [@Nature\_s\_Call](#): > > Kevin Smith. Clerks was a surprise hit and despite its flaws may be considered a gem. Chasing Amy and Dogma show signs of gem-dom. The rest, Mallrats, Zack & Miri Make a Porno, Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, Clerks II, lacklustre. Cop Out - dreck. I actually thought Clerks 2 was his best. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/83 "2010-05-25T19:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > And Nyby really shouldn’t get any real credit for The Thing, except as a good sport. He himself admits that Hawks just put Nyby’s name on the production because scifi was a tainted genre, and an A-list director like Hawks just had no business dabbling in it. An fortunate thing, but there it is. Gotta ask – Cite? I’ve read a lot about The Thing, but I’ve never read an unequivocal admission by Nyby that he didn’t deserve it, and for the reasons you give. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/84 "2010-05-25T19:36:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Gotta ask – Cite? > I’ve read a lot about The Thing, but I’ve never read an unequivocal admission by Nyby that he didn’t deserve it, and for the reasons you give. Sorry, my only cite is an introduction Robert Osborne gave the film on TCM. I’d consider him a reliable source on classic Hollywood, and I personally doubt he’d commit something like that to video unless he was sure of his own sources, but no I don’t have a printed cite for you. My assumption is that he came across it in a bio of Hawks or something–from his intros it’s clear he reads all of those. Or at least has interns who do. ---
**Author:** ![Nature\_s\_Call](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nature_s_call/32/19006_2.png) [@Nature\_s\_Call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nature_s_Call)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/85 "2010-05-25T19:40:58Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > I actually thought Clerks 2 was his best. You know, if I had seen this thread on a differnt day I may have included Clerks 2 in the gem category (and possibly delisted Dogma). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/86 "2010-05-25T19:46:01Z")
> [@](#): > > and I personally doubt he’d commit something like that to video unless he was sure of his own sources I do. I keep hearing or reading this, with never anything to back it up. I suspect him of repeating an “everyone knows” story. Edited to add: For example, from the Wikipedia entry: > [@](#): > > There is debate whether the film was directed by Hawks, with Christian Nyby receiving the credit,[2][3] or whether Nyby directed it with considerable input in both screenplay and advice in directing from producer Hawks.[4] for Hawks’ Winchester Pictures, which released it through RKO Radio Pictures Inc. > **[The Thing from Another World](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_from_Another_World)** > > The Thing from Another World, sometimes referred to as just The Thing, is a 1951 American black-and-white science fiction-horror film directed by Christian Nyby, produced by Edward Lasker for Howard Hawks' Winchester Pictures Corporation, and released by RKO Radio Pictures. The film stars Margaret Sheridan, Kenneth Tobey, Robert Cornthwaite, and Douglas Spencer. James Arness plays The Thing. The Thing from Another World is based on the 1938 novella "Who Goes There?" by John W. Campbell (writin... ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/87 "2010-05-25T19:50:13Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Sorry, my only cite is an introduction Robert Osborne gave the film on TCM. I’d consider him a reliable source on classic Hollywood, and I personally doubt he’d commit something like that to video unless he was sure of his own sources, but no I don’t have a printed cite for you. My assumption is that he came across it in a bio of Hawks or something–from his intros it’s clear he reads all of those. Or at least has interns who do. I support the Osborne credibility issue. [Off Topic] Just recently during the show he and Alec Baldwin host, they were showing an old Alan Ladd and Veronica Lake movie and Baldwin was waxing eloquent about Ladd and avoiding all mention of how Veronica was the character his ex-wife was “cut to resemble” in _L.A. Confidential_. I could see Osborne squirming and doing all he could not to “help” Baldwin with at least a nod in Kim Basinger’s direction. It was tense! [/Off Topic] ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/88 "2010-05-25T19:51:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I do. I keep hearing or reading this, with never anything to back it up. I suspect him of repeating an “everyone knows” story. > > Edited to add: For example, from the Wikipedia entry: > > [The Thing from Another World - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_from_Another_World) Yes, which when you click on the footnote, you get: > [@](#): > > “And let’s get the record straight. The movie was directed by Howard Hawks. Verifiably directed by Howard Hawks. He let his editor, Christian Nyby, take credit. But the kind of feeling between the male characters—the camaderie, the group of men that has to fight off the evil—it’s all pure Hawksian.” Carpenter, John (speaker). (2001-09-04). Obviously still subject to corroboration, but what I’m hearing is that it’s the accepted wisdom that Hawks directed the film, but you want to give Nyby some credit because . . . actually, I’m not sure? What’s \*your \*cite that the accepted wisdom is wrong? The fact that “everybody knows it” is not proof, I agree 100%. But it’s not, on its own, evidence that it’s wrong, either. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/89 "2010-05-25T19:54:43Z")
I have to say, Cal, your own language works against you (emphasis mine): > [@](#): > > **Film histories invariably say** that Howard Hawks was the real director, and there’s some **on-set testimony** to back that up, but\*\*\* I think \*\*\*Nyby ought to get more credit than he usually gets. You seem to offer only your good wishes for Nyby as evidence to contradict what “film histories invariably say,” and what “on-set testimony” backs up. All due respect, I think the cite burden is on you. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/90 "2010-05-25T20:00:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Obviously still subject to corroboration, but what I’m hearing is that it’s the accepted wisdom that Hawks directed the film, but you want to give Nyby some credit because . . . actually, I’m not sure? What’s your cite that the accepted wisdom is wrong? The fact that “everybody knows it” is not proof, I agree 100%. But it’s not, on its own, evidence that it’s wrong, either. Yeah – cite by John Carpenter, who was a kid when the film was directed. He’s repeating accepted wisdom, which everyone believes without proof, because “it’s Hawks’ style” But Nyby was Hawks’ cinematographer, and Hawks was the producer. It’s not surprising if the film closely resembles Hawks’. My reason? Nyby’s name is on the thing. “Everyone says” that Hawks directed it, but, as my cite shows, there is certainly doubt about that, but most people simply assume that Hawks directed it. Despite what you say about science fiction being tainted, I’ve seen nothing to verify that at all. As you yourself note, Robbert Wise got credit for Day the Earth Stood Still. It’s interesting that _Poltergeist_, although directed by Tobe Hooper (of _Texas Chainsaw Massacre_ fame, not to mention a great many other horror films), was produced by Spielberg, and _feels_ more like a Spielberg film. Yet i don’t know of anyone who doubts that hooper directed it. Nevertheless, when it first came out, I recall reviews saying that in it Spielberg played Hawks to Hooper’s Nyby, without further elaboration. The story’ds pretty well known, evidently. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/91 "2010-05-25T20:01:30Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Ted Domme - Blow (unless you liked Martin Lawrence/Eddie Murphy in Life) Ted D **e** mme And his career was cut short by an awful case of death. Also the nephew of a man who should be mentioned in this thread, Jonathan Demme, director of\* Philadelphia \*and _The Silence of the Lambs_. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/92 "2010-05-25T20:08:14Z")
Interesting quotes here: > [@](#): > > The only thing that kept The Thing from going directly to drive-ins was the name of Howard Hawks, who is widely rumored to have directed it. Listen to the rapid-fire, overlapping dialog and watch the macho interplay, and it seems that no one but Hawks could have directed. Why didn’t he take proper credit for the job? > > Christian Nyby, a longtime film editor (often for Hawks), had been wanting to make the jump to director, and it seems likely that his mentor, Hawks, was doing him a favor. Actor Kenneth Tobey, who plays Captain Patrick Hendry and was present throughout The Thing’s shooting schedule, said, “Howard Hawks directed it, all except one scene. Chris Nyby directed us coming through a door, and it’s the worst scene in the picture!” > > Producer Ed Lasker said, “Chris Nyby didn’t direct a thing. One day, Howard was late and Chris said, ‘Why don’t we get started? I know what the shot should be.’ And I said, ‘No, Chris, I think we’ll wait until Howard gets here.’” > > Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, for the rest of their lives, neither Nyby nor Hawks deviated from the official version of the story. But of the rest of the cast and crew, only James Arness stuck with Nyby, throwing into the argument the credibility he’d earned as Gunsmoke’s Marshal Matt Dillon by stating flatly that Nyby had directed the entire film. [http://www.hometheatersound.com/features/collectorscorner/cc\_20091001.htm](http://www.hometheatersound.com/features/collectorscorner/cc_20091001.htm) Unfortunately, he gives no sources for these quotes. Note that, nevertheless, even he says that James Arness as well as Hawks and Nyby gave Nyby directing credit. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/93 "2010-05-25T20:15:35Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Yeah – cite by John Carpenter, who was a kid when the film was directed. He’s repeating accepted wisdom, which everyone believes without proof, because “it’s Hawks’ style” But Nyby was Hawks’ cinematographer, and Hawks was the producer. It’s not surprising if the film closely resembles Hawks’. > > My reason? Nyby’s name is on the thing. “Everyone says” that Hawks directed it, but, as my cite shows, there is certainly doubt about that, but most people simply assume that Hawks directed it. Despite what you say about science fiction being tainted, I’ve seen nothing to verify that at all. As you yourself note, Robbert Wise got credit for Day the Earth Stood Still. > It’s interesting that _Poltergeist_, although directed by Tobe Hooper (of _Texas Chainsaw Massacre_ fame, not to mention a great many other horror films), was produced by Spielberg, and _feels_ more like a Spielberg film. Yet i don’t know of anyone who doubts that hooper directed it. Nevertheless, when it first came out, I recall reviews saying that in it Spielberg played Hawks to Hooper’s Nyby, without further elaboration. The story’ds pretty well known, evidently. Again, that Carpenter sees Hawks’s style in the movie is not proof that his argument is weak, as you seem to suggest. Seeing the style is secondary; it supports the contention that Hawks directed, but it’s not the sole bit of evidence. And a layman’s familiarity with Hollywood politics–especially studio politics–is enough to know that this is probably not the only time official credit did not necessarily reflect reality. And if that credit is your only cite, it’s not enough to reject the received wisdom, because it doesn’t contradict it: it’s not a new discovery of yours that has suddenly cropped up to refute decades of accepted truth. It’s almost as if you’re expecting everyone to go, “Oh my god he’s right, look, it says right here that Christian Nyby directed it! I guess we were wrong all along!” When in fact, that credited is accounted for in the accepted story of what actually happened. And you should reread my post about Wise’s credit: it’s far less likely that a studio would resort to subterfuge to avoid associating Wise, being relatively small potatoes at the time, with what was after all one of the first–if not THE first–big budget, big studio scifi film. In other words, there was no reason to take his name off it: it was a far higher-profile project than _ **The Thing** _, and Wise was a far lower-profile director. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/94 "2010-05-25T20:24:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, that Carpenter sees Hawks’s style in the movie is not proof that his argument is weak, as you seem to suggest. Seeing the style is secondary; it supports the contention that Hawks directed, but it’s not the sole bit of evidence. And a layman’s familiarity with Hollywood politics–especially studio politics–is enough to know that this is probably not the only time official credit did not necessarily reflect reality. And if that credit is your only cite, it’s not enough to reject the received wisdom, because it doesn’t contradict it: it’s not a new discovery of yours that has suddenly cropped up to refute decades of accepted truth. It’s almost as if you’re expecting everyone to go, “Oh my god he’s right, look, it says right here that Christian Nyby directed it! I guess we were wrong all along!” When in fact, that credited is accounted for in the accepted story of what actually happened. And you should reread my post about Wise’s credit: it’s far less likely that a studio would resort to subterfuge to avoid associating Wise, being relatively small potatoes at the time, with what was after all one of the first–if not THE first–big budget, big studio scifi film. In other words, there was no reason to take his name off it: it was a far higher-profile project than The Thing, and Wise was a far lower-profile director. So if Carpenter’s not seeing Hawks’ style isn’t the evidence that Hawks directed, then what is? As far as I can see you’re not providing any. I’m not asserting that it’s true that Nyby directed, but I give him benefit of doubt. After all these years I’ve seen, at best, second-hand citations from cast or crew that Hawks really directed. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/95 "2010-05-25T20:25:26Z")
Anyway Cal, all your points are valid, but they don’t rise to the level of evidence, in and of themselves, IMO. I’d need to see a more concrete cite before I cross over to your way of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/96 "2010-05-25T20:31:08Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > So if Carpenter’s not seeing Hawks’ style isn’t the evidence that Hawks directed, then what is? As far as I can see you’re not providing any. I don’t have to. I’m not arguing against the accepted wisdom, you are. In this case, I have no reason not to accept the accepted wisdom, and you haven’t provided any. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’m not asserting that it’s true that Nyby directed, but I give him benefit of doubt. After all these years I’ve seen, at best, second-hand citations from cast or crew that Hawks really directed. [LIST=A] [li]The doubt he benefits from is your own creation, and thus requires further documentation. Again with the all due respect, but your reasoning is exactly parallel to the IDers’ “evidence” against evolution: refusal to accept != objective doubt.[/li][li]Cast and crew do not fall under “second-hand” cites. Carpenter does, yes. Even Osborne does. But cast and crew? Can’t get much more firsthand.[/li][/LIST] ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/97 "2010-05-25T22:32:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > It’s interesting that _Poltergeist_, although directed by Tobe Hooper (of _Texas Chainsaw Massacre_ fame, not to mention a great many other horror films), was produced by Spielberg, and _feels_ more like a Spielberg film. Yet i don’t know of anyone who doubts that hooper directed it. A thread of mine about this very issue brought the following cite for Spielberg directing _Poltergeist_, in an interview of Zelda Rubenstein, who played the psychic. > **[Click over, children! All are welcome! All welcome! Quint interviews Zelda...](http://legacy.aintitcool.com/node/34266)** > > Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with an interview that really brought my geek out. I'm often asked what the first film I saw was. I don't have an answer to that. The first film I remember seeing in the theater was the ‘80s re-release of... (Scroll about half-way down). > [@](#): > > **Quint** (Interviewer): There’s one thing that I’m really curious about. Being an Austinite I’ve run into Tobe Hooper and I’ve talked to him at length about his work on POLTERGEIST and I brought up the big rumor that Spielberg came in to direct it and kind of took over. Tobe was very adamant that he directed the film. > > **Zelda Rubinstein** : I can tell you that Steven directed all six days I was there. I only worked six days on the film and Steven was there. Tobe set up the shots and Steven made the adjustments. > > You’re not going to hear that from Tobe Hooper, you’ll hear it from Zelda, because that was my honest to God experience. I’m not a fan of Tobe Hooper. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/98 "2010-05-26T13:12:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > _The Stunt Man_ is wickedly clever, scathing commentary on Hollywood that stands far above his other work, and it’s got a great thriller/mystery plot at it’s heart as well. It’s also the movie that I think was best represented by [it’s movie poster](http://chasness.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/stunt_man.jpg), ever. My wife (a longtime film buff) loves loves loves this movie. I saw it and meh. Two things only stand out in my memory: Peter O’Toole swinging through the air with the greatest of ease, and the title character being played by Charlie Manson. Different strokes, I suppose… ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/99 "2010-05-26T13:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > : > > > > So if Carpenter’s not seeing Hawks’ style isn’t the evidence that Hawks directed, then what is? As far as I can see you’re not providing any. > > I don’t have to. I’m not arguing against the accepted wisdom, you are. In this case, I have no reason not to accept the accepted wisdom, and you haven’t provided any. Actually, I have. re-read my posts. Any _you’re_ the one arguing against the plain reading of the credits, so I argue that _you_ have the responsibility for providing the contrary evidence. We argue against “the prevailing wisdom” all the time here at the SDMB. It;'s pretty much SOP, because “prevailing wisdom” is often wrong. > [@](#): > > : > I’m not asserting that it’s true that Nyby directed, but I give him benefit of doubt. After all these years I’ve seen, at best, second-hand citations from cast or crew that Hawks really directed. > [@](#): > > 1. The doubt he benefits from is your own creation, and thus requires further documentation. Again with the all due respect, but your reasoning is exactly parallel to the IDers’ “evidence” against evolution: refusal to accept != objective doubt. Nice put-down, but meaningless, imho > [@](#): > > 1. Cast and crew do not fall under “second-hand” cites. Carpenter does, yes. Even Osborne does. But cast and crew? Can’t get much more firsthand. “cast and crew” certainly is first-hand, but a website purporting to quote them without any cite or attribution certainly isn’t. I’d feel better if I knew where people quoting these were getting the quotes from. I thought you were going to drop this – you’re not going to change your mind, and neither am I, and continually arguing isn’t going to establish anything. as far as I can see your entuire argument is “It’s the prevailing wisdom – what right have you to challenge it?” and mine is – "Certainly there’s reason for doubt, as even many of the proponents admit, and just because something is “prevailing wisdom” doesn’t mean it’s accepted as correct. Certainly not around here.’ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608/100 "2010-05-26T13:39:16Z")
Regarding Tobe Hooper and Poltergeist, this site gives quotes from the people associated with the production asserting that Hooper was, indeed, the director in fact as well as name: [http://www.poltergeist.poltergeistiii.com/really.html](http://www.poltergeist.poltergeistiii.com/really.html) The cites are from the letters column of _Time_ Magazine, so unlike the unsourced quotes for _The Thing_, these have provenance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largely-lacklustre-directors-whove-nonetheless-made-one-or-two-gems/540608.md?page=6)