# Largest City to be Completely Abandoned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817 "2007-02-27T00:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/41 "2007-02-28T00:46:51Z")
Nowhere near comparable to some of the suggestions above - but broadly in line with Pripyat - there’s the case of Roman London. Estimates for the population at its height run in the range 40-60,000, yet it seems to have collapsed to virtually empty following the withdrawal of civil administration. Archaeologists argue about whether the abandoned city was ever truly empty, but as a generalisation there are several centuries where there’s essentially no evidence of occupation. An example of a major centre of political administration emptying, then later re-emerging as a significant city again. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/42 "2007-02-28T01:31:20Z")
[QUOTE=HeyHomie] What is the largest city in human history to be completely abandoned due to war, natrual disaster, famine, or whatever? Additionally, which still-existing cities have suffered the greatest population declines since their zeniths? I ask because New Orleans, LA, which previously had a population of c. 487,000, is now hovering at around 200,000, and I hear tell that that figure might not be sustainable. While I doubt that New Orleans will ever completely disappear, it might never again become its former self. [/QUOTE] Please note that the undamaged portions of New Orleans still have pretty much the same population density as before. But there’s a huge section of the 9th Ward and New Orleans East (all in the city limits of New Orleans) that are completely abandoned. Basically the suburbs within the city limits have no population. The suburbs outside the city limits are now more densely populated than before the storm. There’s been about a 10 mile population shift to the west. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/43 "2007-02-28T01:41:25Z")
[QUOTE=ArchitectChore] [Chernobyl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl) is my best guess: poulation ~14,000 pre-meltdown. [/QUOTE] People STILL live in Chernobyl, according to the wikipedia entry. :eek: That must be a very strange existence. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/44 "2007-02-28T01:42:52Z")
In 1327 [Muhammad bin Tughlaq](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Tughlaq), ruler of the Delhi Sultanate, ordered the entire population of Delhi to clear out. Then as now Delhi must have been one of the most populous cities of the world (how would one find 14th-century population estimates?). A couple years later he changed his mind about moving the capital, but the historian says “A vast amount of the population died during the moves due to the inadequate travel arrangements. It was said that Delhi was a ghost town for years after the move back.” I nominate Delhi, 1327 as the most populous city ever depopulated _all at once_. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/45 "2007-02-28T02:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] This is purely my memory, but I recall that Angkor in Cambodia was once estimated to have a population in the neighborhood of a million. Google turns up cites for that figure, but nothing I’d say is authoritative. [/QUOTE] Crap, I should have thought of that. I am reminded however, of the town just down the river. According to this [site](http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0838827.html): > [@](#): > > The onset (1970) of fighting between government forces and the Khmer Rouge drove refugees from the war-torn countryside to Phnom Penh. Its population swelled from c.500,000 in 1970 to c.2 million in early 1975, when it was evacuated after falling to the Khmer Rouge. By the time the Khmer Rouge were overthrown in 1979, the city had become virtually a ghost town, with no more than 50,000 residents and its universities and cultural institutions no longer in operation. It was effectively empty for 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/46 "2007-02-28T02:05:49Z")
[QUOTE=lizardling] People STILL live in Chernobyl, according to the wikipedia entry. :eek: That must be a very strange existence. [/QUOTE] [See for yourself.](http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/) Just pick the listings on the left to see the Chernobyl pics. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/47 "2007-02-28T07:37:29Z")
I cannot remember the name of it, but on the island of Cyprus there is an abandoned holiday resort which has been deserted since the war in the 1970’s. It’s just inside the Turkish part of the island on the east coast. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/48 "2007-02-28T07:45:31Z")
I have now found the name of the town in Cyprus , it’s [Famagusta](http://www.inhostage.com/index2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/49 "2007-02-28T08:27:07Z")
For most of the 7th century BCE, [Nineveh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninveh#History), the capital of the Assyrian empire, was one of the greatest cities in the world with a population of perhaps 150,000. The city was razed to the ground in 612 BCE, was rebuilt on a much smaller scale several centuries later, and eventually faded away. The Iraqi city of Mosul was built near the city’s ruins. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/50 "2007-02-28T08:59:23Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] … [Nineveh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninveh#History), the capital of the Assyrian empire… [/QUOTE] Quick, somebody tell Sir Robin! I think in many cases, it’s too hard to tell what the original population was for many early abandoned cities. [Tiahuanacu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiwanaku) has estimates up to nearly a million and a half people, but more likely “between 570,000 and 1,111,500.” ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/51 "2007-02-28T13:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=Johanna] "A vast amount of the population died during the moves due to the inadequate travel arrangements. [/QUOTE] Damn you, JetBlue! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Barrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Barrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrington)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/52 "2007-02-28T18:10:50Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] [See for yourself.](http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/) Just pick the listings on the left to see the Chernobyl pics. [/QUOTE] I thought that site had been debunked? Something to the effect that the pictures weren’t taken anywhere near Chernobyl? ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/53 "2007-03-01T20:01:29Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] The city of Ys may or may not fit into this Thread, but the circumstances make a definitive answer problematical. > **[Ys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ys)** > > Ys (pronounced /ˈiːs/ EESS), also spelled Is or Kêr-Is in Breton, and Ville d'Ys ("City of Ys") in French, is a mythical city on the coast of Brittany that was swallowed up by the ocean. Most versions of the legend place the city in the Baie de Douarnenez. In the original Breton, the city receives the name of Kêr Ys, which translates as "low city". Kêr is the Breton word for "city", and is related to the Welsh caer, Cornish ker- and more distantly the Irish cathair, while Ys/Is is related to Wels... [/QUOTE] Ys probably doesn’t belong here since it’s pretty much a myth. However, [after reading one version about how the city supposedly met its soggy demise](http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/armorican.html#Key), if there’s ever a “Largest City to be Completely Abandoned Due to An Act of Drunken Stupidity” Thread, Ys would certainly be near the top. As for more recent examples, there are a number of ghost towns in the Western U.S. that had significant populations that dwindled down to nothing (or near-nothing) once the mines gave out. Virginia City, Nevada (which may not be the best example since it’s not completely abandoned) had 30,000 when it was at its peak in the late 19th century. It’s now 1,500 (and that was after a recent increase in its population). Bodie, California, on the other hand, _is_ abandoned (except maybe for a few state park employees). At its most populous, it had about 10,000. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/54 "2007-03-01T22:02:53Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Fascinating thread, thank you **HeyHomie** for starting it, Jim {Great Magazine and two fun books now} [/QUOTE] You’re welcome. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/55 "2007-03-02T00:03:01Z")
[Merv](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merv), in what is now Turkmenistan, was said to be the _largest city in the world_ at one point in the 12th century. Then in the 13th century Genghis Khan razed it to the ground. It’s definitely a candidate for this thread. Might well be the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/56 "2007-03-02T00:10:35Z")
[QUOTE=Johanna] [Merv](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merv), in what is now Turkmenistan, was said to be the _largest city in the world_ at one point in the 12th century. Then in the 13th century Genghis Khan razed it to the ground. It’s definitely a candidate for this thread. Might well be the winner. [/QUOTE] Merv? Was its heraldic animal the griffin? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/57 "2007-03-02T00:26:20Z")
The World Trade Center, not a city, but they did have their own zip code. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/58 "2007-03-02T14:56:37Z")
[QUOTE=Barrington] I thought that site had been debunked? Something to the effect that the pictures weren’t taken anywhere near Chernobyl? [/QUOTE] There’s been some fabrication on her part and exaggeration, but it’s Chernobyl and the surrounding area, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/59 "2007-03-02T17:31:20Z")
[QUOTE=Johanna] In 1327 [Muhammad bin Tughlaq](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Tughlaq), ruler of the Delhi Sultanate, ordered the entire population of Delhi to clear out. Then as now Delhi must have been one of the most populous cities of the world (how would one find 14th-century population estimates?). A couple years later he changed his mind about moving the capital, but the historian says “A vast amount of the population died during the moves due to the inadequate travel arrangements. It was said that Delhi was a ghost town for years after the move back.” I nominate Delhi, 1327 as the most populous city ever depopulated _all at once_. :eek: [/QUOTE] Speaking of India, I was thinking of [Fatehpur Sikri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatehpur_Sikri), capital of Mughal India from 1571 to 1585. I don’t know how populous it was, though, or whether the entire population bailed or only the court and administration. But it’s remarkable for so much resources poured into building a city that only lasted 14 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817/60 "2007-03-02T19:15:30Z")
[QUOTE=Johanna] [Merv](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merv), in what is now Turkmenistan, was said to be the _largest city in the world_ at one point in the 12th century… Might well be the winner. [/QUOTE] The Wiki article states the population was 200,000 people at its height. I’m still sticking with Angkor and its 750,000 population as the winner. (Mostly because I’m kind of psyched that I was the first to throw out Angkor, dammit!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-to-be-completely-abandoned/393817.md?page=4)