# Largest city without traffic lights **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965 "2019-10-18T18:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/1 "2019-10-18T18:50:13Z")
What’s the largest city that has no traffic lights? The city of [Carmel, Indiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmel,_Indiana) (pop 92K) has plans to replace all its traffic lights with roundabouts. Well, all except one. I understand there’s one that they figure they can’t replace, probably because there’s not enough room at that intersection. Anyway, they currently have over 120 roundabouts and are shooting for about 140. Anyway, that made me wonder about the question. I doubt if the answer (if it is known) is in the US. Carmel easily has way more roundabouts than any other city in North America.[sup]1[/sup] But perhaps there’s a good-sized city in Europe or Australia that has eliminated all their traffic lights. [sup]1[/sup] The runners up are Frisco TX (pop 117K) with over 40 and Bend OR (98K) with close to 40. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/2 "2019-10-18T18:56:46Z")
There are a lot of traffic circles in our neighborhood area, and they all have stop signs, which kind of makes you wonder why they bothered. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/3 "2019-10-18T19:08:11Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > There are a lot of traffic circles in our neighborhood area, and they all have stop signs, which kind of makes you wonder why they bothered. Those are most likely what are known as Neighborhood Traffic Circles, which are not the same thing as roundabouts. They’re only purpose is to calm traffic. That is, keep people from speeding through residential streets. Roundabouts, while they do calm traffic, also are intended to reduce congestion and keep traffic flowing smoothly. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/4 "2019-10-18T20:53:26Z")
Tekes Town in China has a pop. of ~150,000 and no traffic lights. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/5 "2019-10-18T21:00:48Z")
[Tekes County](https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-09/21/content_26851950.htm) in Xinjiang, outer north province of China, is set out in an Taoist Bagua or Eight Diagrams pattern (four ring roads connecting 64 streets, with eight radial main routes) and apparently has no traffic lights since 1996 (and no traffic jams). Population in 2002 was 150,000. As the the associated questions of largest city without working traffic lights and largest city where traffic lights are simply ignored … I suspect that that is a much bigger field. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/6 "2019-10-18T21:02:32Z")
Would you believe bloody MrDibble ran the red just to beat me by that much? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/7 "2019-10-18T21:43:35Z")
Looks like we may have an answer. So how do they manage street intersections in Tekes? Roundabouts? Stop signs? No one drives cars? Drivers meditate? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/8 "2019-10-19T07:48:42Z")
From what I can glean from Google maps: stop signs, several concentric ring roads that have right of way, and the centre of town is effectively a giant traffic circle. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/9 "2019-10-19T13:32:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > From what I can glean from Google maps: stop signs, several concentric ring roads that have right of way, and the centre of town is effectively a giant traffic circle. Yeah. It appears to be laid out like a spider web: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.2145741,81.8356889&z=15&output=embed&dg=ntvb&q=Tekesi%2BBagua%2BCity ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/10 "2019-10-19T14:57:44Z")
I don’t understand how some sort of control isn’t needed where all those diagonal streets intersect the rings. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/11 "2019-10-19T15:06:39Z")
Venice, I should think. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/12 "2019-10-19T16:06:20Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Venice, I should think. It seems they do have [traffic lights](http://www.gondolagreg.com/2008/10/venetian-traffic-light.html) in [Venice](https://ytaba36.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/traffic-lights-in-venice/). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/13 "2019-10-19T18:22:15Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > It seems they do have [traffic lights](http://www.gondolagreg.com/2008/10/venetian-traffic-light.html) in [Venice](https://ytaba36.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/traffic-lights-in-venice/). Plus, Venice, at least the area administered by the Venice municipail authorities, includes a mainland district named [Mestre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestre). Which is a perfectly ordinary Italian city with perfectly ordinary streets and does have traffic lights. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/14 "2019-10-20T20:58:09Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/largest-city-without-traffic-lights/841965/15 "2019-10-20T21:18:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I don’t understand how some sort of control isn’t needed where all those diagonal streets intersect the rings. What I originally said above was that there were probably stop signs (not traffic lights) on the spoke roads, making it a PITA to get to the right distance from the city center to use the correct ring road. Looking at the layout, the spoke roads seem to be more major streets, and the “ring roads” join at an angle, exactly like a spider web, as I observed earlier. Makes me think it’s more likely that the spoke roads have the right of way, with the sides streets having stop signs to cross or turn onto them. Meaning that if you are a “spider” at the city center, you use it exactly like a spider web, traveling out on the right spoke to get to your destination. The drawback would be that if you wanted to go to another destination at the same distance from the city center, and it is a significant arc length, you are better off traveling in to the center on a spoke, and using the big traffic circle in the middle to get out again on the proper spoke for your destination.