# Lasagna: ricotta or bechamel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 12, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556 "2019-08-12T14:44:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/41 "2019-08-13T07:20:04Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > Ricotta, but not straight ricotta: a mixture of ricotta, beaten raw egg, herbs, and a little bit of milk. Thin enough to spread before cooking but it firms up by the time the lasagna is cooked. OK, so you’re making a cheesy bechamel. Apparently your lasagna marries north and south. > [@bobot](#): > > I also did not actively add that little slash thing over the E in béchamel, it just popped up automatically. Spell check continues to amuse this old guy. Ooooh your spellchecker speaks French! Mine is happy with the Spanish version, no accent mark. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/42 "2019-08-13T07:26:18Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > My mother’s family came from Naples and I’ve never had a version cooked for me that didn’t use ricotta (pronounced with the New York Italian dialect). Well, I spend time every year in Italy, and have never had it with ricotta instead of bechamel. Honestly, you’re all monsters. _Monsters_. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/43 "2019-08-13T07:27:29Z")
**SanVito** , they also make stuff with palm oil or with thickeners and call it “cheese”. It’s a strange day when a Spaniard and an Englishwoman agree that someone else’s food needs scare quotes! ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/44 "2019-08-13T07:59:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **SanVito** , they also make stuff with palm oil or with thickeners and call it “cheese”. It’s a strange day when a Spaniard and an Englishwoman agree that someone else’s food needs scare quotes! Ha! So true, but in fairness I’m not trying to defend English interpretations of Italian food (Lord only knows what my mother did to lasagne in the 70s, considering she used to put blackcurrent jam into her chicken curry). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/45 "2019-08-13T13:20:50Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Well, I spend time every year in Italy, and have never had it with ricotta instead of bechamel. > > Honestly, you’re all monsters. _Monsters_. But where in Italy? In the south, you’ll find ricotta variations. This is where the Italian-American versions of lasagna hail from. Note, for example, [the Italian article on lasagna from Wikipedia](https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne_al_forno): > [@](#): > > La versione napoletana della ricetta, che in questo caso non contempla utilizzo delle paste all’uovo, prevede tra gli ingredienti: il ragù di pomodoro, i latticini, in particolare Mozzarella o Provola, le polpettine di carne e **la Ricotta romana**. Lasagna takes on many different forms. There’s versions made with pesto, with hard-boiled eggs, with meatballs, with cheeses other than parmesan (like mozarella and ricotta), with vegetables, etc. It’s not all lasagna alla bolognese. (Though that is the most perfect form of lasagna. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/46 "2019-08-13T13:46:34Z")
I had to look up “bechamel”! Never heard of it. My cheese layers of lasagna consist of small curd cottage cheese, mozzarella cheese, parmesan cheese and eggs. I find ricotta too dry. My Italian grandma never used ricotta either. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/47 "2019-08-13T15:03:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But where in Italy? In the south, you’ll find ricotta variations. This is where the Italian-American versions of lasagna hail from. > > Note, for example, [the Italian article on lasagna from Wikipedia](https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne_al_forno): > > Lasagna takes on many different forms. There’s versions made with pesto, with hard-boiled eggs, with meatballs, with cheeses other than parmesan (like mozarella and ricotta), with vegetables, etc. It’s not all lasagna alla bolognese. (Though that is the most perfect form of lasagna. 😉 ) North, middle and in Puglia, although I do admit lasagne comes in many forms. If I’m ever in doubt about a dish, I’ll go to the Italian food bible, [the Silver Spoon](https://uk.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-9780714862569/). I prefer my lasagne oozing with smooth sauce, so don’t fancy the idea of ricotta at all. I sometimes add mozarella for a little soft cheesyness. I also like a pork/beef combo for a richer flavour. Cottage Cheese sounds bloody awful way to spoil lasagne. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/48 "2019-08-13T16:02:52Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > Ricotta, but not straight ricotta: a mixture of ricotta, beaten raw egg, herbs, and a little bit of milk. Thin enough to spread before cooking but it firms up by the time the lasagna is cooked. > [@Nava](#): > > OK, so you’re making a cheesy bechamel. Apparently your lasagna marries north and south. 😕 Huh? Where’s the roux (wheat flour cooked in butter, usually seasoned with herbs and/or spices. I use black pepper)? And what are eggs doing in there? And how are the eggs being raw when bechamel is cooked? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/49 "2019-08-13T16:18:51Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Well, I spend time every year in Italy, and have never had it with ricotta instead of bechamel. > > Honestly, you’re all monsters. _Monsters_. Yeah, I’m surprised at the vote, I expected it to be lopsided the other way. How many of those voting ricotta have tried it both ways and actually prefer ricotta? I hope it’s just what you’ve seen in simple recipes and are voting that way by default. I mean, lasagna with ricotta is fine and a very tasty dish (it’s lasagna, after all). But lasagna with bechamel is _divine_. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/50 "2019-08-13T16:20:43Z")
Ricotta, but I always pronounce it “Ricot”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/51 "2019-08-13T17:25:28Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Yeah, I’m surprised at the vote, I expected it to be lopsided the other way. I’m almost surprised bechamel is doing as well as it is, as this is an American-heavy board, and almost all Americans I know have been a bit baffled by the idea of lasagna alla bolognese with ragu alla bolognese and bechamel. I mean, read through (Canadian, but still technically “American”) **RickJay** ’s “Angry Chef” rant linked to earlier: > [@](#): > > Incidentally, some recipes I read about talk about adding “roux” or “bechamel” or some such thing. I had to look those pansy-ass words up. As near as I can tell, “Bechamel” is a sauce made of milk, flour, and butter. What a load of bullshit. If you want milk, flour, and butter, go bake a fucking cake, pastry-boy. Lasagna is all about the CONCENTRATION of flavours, of taking strong flavours and mixing them together just right. Adding some weak-ass sauce that’s nothing but flour and butter? You might as well pour in dog shit. No roux, no bechamel, unless you want me to come over to your house and hit you in the head with a fucking bat. That’s pretty much the attitude I’ve encountered (though much diluted) from others when I talk to them about lasagna alla bolognese. Now, whether they’ve actually eaten it, or if **RickJay** has, I don’t know, but I’m guessing not, as lasagna alla bolognese is the pinnacle of “CONCENTRATION of flavours” in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/52 "2019-08-14T00:02:48Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Yeah, I’m surprised at the vote, I expected it to be lopsided the other way. > > How many of those voting ricotta have tried it both ways and actually prefer ricotta? I hope it’s just what you’ve seen in simple recipes and are voting that way by default. I mean, lasagna with ricotta is fine and a very tasty dish (it’s lasagna, after all). But lasagna with bechamel is _divine_. I have, but must admit I adore ricotta.The béchamel I’ve had is sloppy. Not at all lasagna. Lasagna should be able to be served by cutting a square out a pan and placed on a plate. If you would like more sauce, have at it but pour a little on top after it’s plated. Lasagna is not supposed to resemble thick soup with wide noodles. Was at another nice Italian restaurant last summer, and the ravioli was some meat mixture. Um. Ravioli is stuffed with ricotta. They did have little ravioli/ricotta appetizers that where wonderful. Like I said, I really like ricotta. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/53 "2019-08-14T08:02:05Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I have, but must admit I adore ricotta.The béchamel I’ve had is sloppy. Not at all lasagna. Lasagna should be able to be served by cutting a square out a pan and placed on a plate. If you would like more sauce, have at it but pour a little on top after it’s plated. Lasagna is not supposed to resemble thick soup with wide noodles. > > Was at another nice Italian restaurant last summer, and the ravioli was some meat mixture. Um. Ravioli is stuffed with ricotta. They did have little ravioli/ricotta appetizers that where wonderful. Like I said, I really like ricotta. Ravioli is just a type of pasta - you can stuff it with anything you like, pretty much. And you have a very singular view of lasagne. Lasagne with bechamel in no way resembles soup, any more than a portion of lasagne should resemble a brick. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/54 "2019-08-14T08:33:27Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Ravioli is just a type of pasta - you can stuff it with anything you like, pretty much. > > And you have a very singular view of lasagne. Lasagne with bechamel in no way resembles soup, any more than a portion of lasagne should resemble a brick. Yes to both of these comments. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/55 "2019-08-14T12:51:33Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > IUm. Ravioli is stuffed with ricotta. That is _a_ possible stuffing for ravioli, but hardly the only one. Meat-stuffed ravioli is pretty standard, but you can get spinach-stuffed (usually mixed with ricotta), butternut squash, goat cheese, fish, fruit, chestnuts, potato, whatever your heart desires. And lasagna alla bolognese should not be soupy. [This should be about what it looks like](https://www.villeinitalia.com/blog/italian-meat-lasagna-recipe-how-to-cook-it-alla-bolognese/) (though I make it with spinach pasta.) ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/56 "2019-08-14T15:40:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That is _a_ possible stuffing for ravioli, but hardly the only one. Meat-stuffed ravioli is pretty standard, but you can get spinach-stuffed (usually mixed with ricotta), butternut squash, goat cheese, fish, fruit, chestnuts, potato, whatever your heart desires. > > And lasagna alla bolognese should not be soupy. [This should be about what it looks like](https://www.villeinitalia.com/blog/italian-meat-lasagna-recipe-how-to-cook-it-alla-bolognese/) (though I make it with spinach pasta.) I like mine a little more on the moist side - something akin to [this](https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/classic-italian-lasagne) or [this](https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/pasta-recipes/jamie-s-classic-family-lasagne/) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/57 "2019-08-14T16:05:51Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I like mine a little more on the moist side - something akin to [this](https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/classic-italian-lasagne) or [this](https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/pasta-recipes/jamie-s-classic-family-lasagne/) Those look reasonably similar to me. Point being, it’s not a soup or soupy in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/58 "2019-08-14T16:56:26Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > How many of those voting ricotta have tried it both ways and actually prefer ricotta? It really isn’t just lasagna. I honestly dislike bechamel in _everything_. I’ll just say this out loud - pastitsio sucks. Now we can pause here briefly while **pulykamell** contemplates murder ;). Don’t like it and I’ve actually had quite a few bechamel lasagnas over the years, which I’ve always found edible but sorta disappointing and not really what I had wanted. To the point now where I will indeed never voluntarily order one again( I’ll eat them without demure if served it by a friend of course ). As with papayas I’d like to like it better. I like sauces. I like many rich sauces. I honestly thought I _would_ like it. I was jazzed to try my first pastitsio. But alas, it just doesn’t work for me at all. In lasagna it is partly a textural thing, I just prefer that ricotta-y texture to another oozy sauce. But the main issue is that I honestly find it a mix of slightly bland and richly cloying. For me it’s a bit like a plain fettuchine alfredo which I like to eat once every three years, then don’t want to revisit again until that time expires. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/59 "2019-08-14T17:08:13Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > It really isn’t just lasagna. I honestly dislike bechamel in _everything_. I’ll just say this out loud - pastitsio sucks. Now we can pause here briefly while **pulykamell** contemplates murder 😉 You would think that, but I’m not the biggest fan of pastitsio, either, or at least the versions I’ve had. I’m not entirely sure why, as it’s pretty darned similar. But you’re right about the texture thing. I’m fine with any texture, but in my case I prefer the smooth texture of bechamel to the grainy, bumpy texture of ricotta or small curd cottage cheese or whatever it is people typically use. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556/60 "2019-08-14T19:20:37Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Yeah, I’m surprised at the vote, I expected it to be lopsided the other way. > > How many of those voting ricotta have tried it both ways and actually prefer ricotta? I hope it’s just what you’ve seen in simple recipes and are voting that way by default. I mean, lasagna with ricotta is fine and a very tasty dish (it’s lasagna, after all). But lasagna with bechamel is _divine_. I may have had it both ways and don’t remember. I doubt it. It’s not a dish that I tend to order in restaurants. All my Italian relatives cook it with ricotta. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lasagna-ricotta-or-bechamel/838556.md?page=4)